White Ribbon Conservation Issue

[Mark]

Now Gavin, don't you know that most of the self righteous on here will admonish you for not throwing an 18" back.

[eric1978]

Now Gavin, don't you know that most of the self righteous on here will admonish you for not throwing an 18" back.

When I catch a fish, I put it back in the river to share with the next angler to come along. When you catch a fish, you take it home.

Go ahead and keep every limit of fish you catch...it's your right and I won't admonish you for it. But don't sit there and pretend those who conserve are more "self"-righteous than those who consume.

[Gavin]

Let em say what they will. I've released allot more legal trout than I taken over the years...probably 95% or more.

[stlfisher]

I have no issues with anyone who wants to keep a trout to eat or wants to take home a trophy.

However, the mentality of rushing to the stream in a lather after stocking in a desperate attempt to take home a limit as fast as possbile is another story.

[stlfisher]

If trout don't compete with smallmouth in the 11 pt, why do most fishing reports reveal the best methods are on crayfish patterns, stoneflies, and streamers, weighted and fished deep. Why are my best producing lures imitating crayfish and minnows for both species? 11 pt trout are not dainty little bug suckers, they like meat, minnows, crayfish, and larger insects, just like smallies. You don't see any reports about a fine Trico hatch in any of the reports. And based on my personal experience from fishing the Greer to Turner section both before when the trout were stocked monthly to recently when the trout were left to fend for themselves without stocking, smallies have returned and we catch more of them. You artificially introduce an extra 100 hungry trout into a pool of water along with all of its other inhabitants, there is increased competition for the food source that is available in the pool. Do you think the trout just sit there and wait in a pecking order?

And most stream temps below the spring branches after the cooler water of 55-58 degree spring water mixes with the warmer waters of the main river soon becomes ideal smallmouth habitat. I have caught nice smallmouth bass in waters below Greer Spring, Boze Mill, Alley Spring, Welch Spring, Cave Spring, Pulltite Spring, Round Spring, Mammoth Spring, and others. I have caught nice largemouth also along with pickerel, goggle eye, and walleye. The theory that a spring branch "sterilizes" a stream and makes it inhabitable to all things but trout does not hold water based on my experience. The cool waters of a spring are what enhances our smallmouth streams.

I did't mean trout would not compete with Smallmouth or even eat some of the same foods. I said they would not out compete them. I would consider bass a more dominant species than trout.

In this secanrio smallmouth are at a distinct disavantage because of the habitat....just as trout would be in smallmouth habitat. This why you don't see much intermingling and why those areas tend to fish poorely for both species. Yes, you will find some of each species in both stretches, but mostly they stick to the habitat that is best suited for them. The species in it's preferred habitat would clearly out perform the species that is not living in it's preferred habitat. There really is no way to measure it, as one species would always be at a disadvantage because of habitat issues. If all things were equal I would put my money on smallmouth coming out on top. I love catching and fighting trout and that is my preffered species but they aren't exactly the hardiest of creatures.

So to me the habitat seems to be the deciding factor not the competition between the two species.

[troutfiend1985]

Now Gavin, don't you know that most of the self righteous on here will admonish you for not throwing an 18" back.

I don't see why you would even think this is what the heart of the issue is. I have no problem with people keeping fish, I do have a problem with depleting a resource. If someone wants to keep fish, as long as their legal go ahead. However, if regulations allow an entire stream to be effectively wiped out within a couple of weeks of fishing, then we have a problem with the regulation. You see my point? It's not that I have a problem with you, or people who keep trout. That's fine with me, the problem is that the current regulations provide no "safe harbor" for the hopes of consistent fishable populations of trout in the small white ribbon streams.

I'm not better than you, nor any other angler on this forum. I'm sorry if you think fly fisherman are all jerks/snob/pompous individuals. I'm sure there are a lot of fly fisherman who fit the stereotype. However, that is just a stereotype and not an accurate description of everyone who fishes with a fly rod. And just to note, I didn’t see any posts saying “Gavin, you slob, keeping a trout, how could you?”

[Chief Grey Bear]

I have no problem with people keeping fish, I do have a problem with depleting a resource. If someone wants to keep fish, as long as their legal go ahead. However, if regulations allow an entire stream to be effectively wiped out within a couple of weeks of fishing, then we have a problem with the regulation. You see my point?

No.

[ozark trout fisher]

No.

How could you possibly not see his point? It's laid out in pretty simple terms- some of these streams are getting darn near fished out between stockings. MDC shocking data supports that-nine rainbows being left in one of them after catch and keep fisherman got through. You can choose to disagree, but I think you have to at least admit that there's a point there.

I have just one simple question for you. Why are you opposed to making a short portion of White Ribbon areas C&R? What is the problem with leaving 2/3 or 3/4 of the water as White Ribbon with just a short stretch of catch and release? It would provide at least a short area where you'd be sure to find some fish long after stockings-something valuable that wouldn't do much at all to hurt bait and catch and keep fisherman. If we could have that, I'd be happy. I have no problem with bait fisherman, and I honestly don't want to see a solution that leaves them high and dry.

So would you be opposed to that, and if so, why?

[drew03cmc]

I did't mean trout would not compete with Smallmouth or even eat some of the same foods. I said they would not out compete them. I would consider bass a more dominant species than trout.

In this secanrio smallmouth are at a distinct disavantage because of the habitat....just as trout would be in smallmouth habitat. This why you don't see much intermingling and why those areas tend to fish poorely for both species. Yes, you will find some of each species in both stretches, but mostly they stick to the habitat that is best suited for them. The species in it's preferred habitat would clearly out perform the species that is not living in it's preferred habitat. There really is no way to measure it, as one species would always be at a disadvantage because of habitat issues. If all things were equal I would put my money on smallmouth coming out on top. I love catching and fighting trout and that is my preffered species but they aren't exactly the hardiest of creatures.

So to me the habitat seems to be the deciding factor not the competition between the two species.

Smallmouth are at a distinct disadvantage because of the habitat which they are native to? Sorry, the disadvantage is that there are 5-10 trout per smallmouth (my estimation) in the stream. That presents a major disadvantage when the holding water is all trout no bass. The rainbow trout's preferred habitat is in coastal streams west of the Rockies. The only trout that is native anywhere close to our region is the brook trout which is native to upper Michigan and throughout the northern Ohio Valley. If the trout are stocked at a rate that displaces smallmouth, we have an issue. They are stocked and then regulated to sustain an artificial population which in turn creates a majority of salmonids and a minority of natives.

How could you possibly not see his point? It's laid out in pretty simple terms- some of these streams are getting darn near fished out between stockings. MDC shocking data supports that-nine rainbows being left in one of them after catch and keep fisherman got through. You can choose to disagree, but I think you have to at least admit that there's a point there.

I have just one simple question for you. Why are you opposed to making a short portion of White Ribbon areas C&R? What is the problem with leaving 2/3 or 3/4 of the water as White Ribbon with just a short stretch of catch and release? It would provide at least a short area where you'd be sure to find some fish long after stockings-something valuable that wouldn't do much at all to hurt bait and catch and keep fisherman. If we could have that, I'd be happy. I have no problem with bait fisherman, and I honestly don't want to see a solution that leaves them high and dry.

So would you be opposed to that, and if so, why?

I am opposed to C&R trout fishing regulations year round for the simple fact that there are no year round C&R trout fisheries in the state, save a few stretches of trout park water. Why would you put C&R regulations to work on Capps or Hickory and NOT do it on Crane, Mill, Barren Fork, etc? If you can answer those questions, we might be able to talk.

[Chief Grey Bear]

How could you possibly not see his point? It's laid out in pretty simple terms- some of these streams are getting darn near fished out between stockings. MDC shocking data supports that-nine rainbows being left in one of them after catch and keep fisherman got through. You can choose to disagree, but I think you have to at least admit that there's a point there.

OTF, if you believe that only 9 trout were left in the whole stream, there is no way we are going to have any semblance of an intelligent conversation.