Felt Soles For Your Soul

[jjtroutbum]

SHUT THE HELL UP JD (JJ?) !... we're really impressed with your political view. Do you feed yourself first, or your livestock?

I get up eat then feed the dogs. Answered your question.

Now my turn?

You speak to all people like this or just as an anonymous public forum member? This place is better than your insults.

BTW my name is posted in the sig line for all to see.

This thread is about banning things, as far as I am concerned for profit. A member here has suggested keeping contaminated waters free of felt. That IMHO is an answer to the problem with out getting in my and others pockets.

[Outside Bend]

Question: Aside from the presence of noxious didymo blooms, what do New Zealand, Chile, the Bow River of Alberta, South Dakota's Rapid Creek, Tennessee's South Holston and Cumberland tailwaters, Virginia's Pound River, the Connecticut River of the northeast US, and several Catskill mountain streams all have in common?

Hint:

Chile.

New Zealand.

Bow River, AB.

Vancouver Island, BC.

Rapid Creek, SD.

Cumberland River.

Jackson River, VA.

Connecticut River.

Battenkill River.

Catskill.

Notice a pattern?

I'm not sure what the big mystery is- people are pretty good at moving critters around, knowingly or unknowingly. Eurasian milfoil, zebra mussels, rusty crayfish, goldfish, rudd, emerald shiners, brook trout, pike, walleye, spiny waterfleas, yellow perch, New Zealand mudsnails, common carp, tiger salamanders, bullfrogs, green frogs, and many other species have been introduced by anglers at one point or another, intentionally or accidentally. That folks could be inadvertently transporting snails, didymo, whirling disease, and other small organisms via felt soles shouldn't be that revelatory.

The spread of didymo is well correlated with the advent of felt soles, as well as anglers taking more destination trips to places around the world. Anglers transport a significant amount of sediment between streams via felt soled boots. There's a significant correlation between streams with didymo and streams with high angling pressure. There are documented cases where didymo occurs downstream of a public fishing access, but not upstream. There are documented cases of didymo being absent on streams where angling is banned, while infesting nearby streams where angling is allowed. Anglers move sediment between streams via felt soled wading boots. Other aquatic invasives like whirling disease and New Zealand mudsnails have been documented in felt soled wading boots. Studies have shown felt soles trap far more whirling disease spores than rubber soles. Studies have shown felt soles trap far more live didymo cells than rubber soles, even after repeated thorough cleanings. You can find a lot of the information on google, and links to many of the studies at www.stopans.org.

When it's mineral extractors, or loggers, or Big Oil, or the Government, or Purdue, or Tyson, or otters, or giggers, or aquaculturists, or farmers, or ranchers, or CAFO's, or sewage treatment plants, or Monsanto, or any other agent causing environmental harm, sportsmen jump all over it. But when the evidence indicates that perhaps our activities too have environmental consequences, we seem to want to ignore or deny it.

In this instance it doesn't seem to me that policymakers are pulling facts out of the air, rather they're using the scientific research which has been done to come to a rational conclusion. Felt soles are a major pathway for invasive species like didymo and whirling disease, and reducing the prevalence of felt soles reduces the likelihood of those organisms spreading. That can be accomplished either voluntarily or through bans, I don't particularly care.

Perhaps it's not a matter of a lack of research, but that the research doesn't agree with the dogma of some angling demographics...

[Chief Grey Bear]

I just can't believe some of what I am reading here. Some here are pratically saying that yeah I may be spreading it, but I don't care. OTF is going to hold out until it is the PRIMARY cause. REALLY? The primary cause??? Any chance should be good enough. It is very ironic to read that we shouldn't fish for stressed trout in the heat of the summer because as sportsmen it is the right thing to do. But to hell with going without felt!

Like I stated before, some like to claim to be flag waving conservationist. Until it becomes inconvenient. Sad really. You want undeniable proof that felt can help the spread?? I say provide undeniable proof it doesn't?

[jdmidwest]

Where is the research that felt soles really add any traction? I have busted my butt on the banks many more times with felt soles than I have in the river with regular boots. Grass, Frosted Grass, Mud, Snow, Sleet are all just as slick or slicker with felt soles.

I have tried studded soles and not found much more improvement, they seem to grip better but make more clicking noise that will transmit in the water to scare fish. I will not wear them around any boat anymore, they chew aluminum, fiberglass, and poly and get tangled in carpet.

I fished for years with regular waders and rubber soles with no more events than I do now with felt. I wet wade and float in Crocs now and they seem to have good traction. Before, I wet waded in tennis shoes and some of the plastic soles would get slick. I duck hunt in rubber soles with no problems.

Why is everyone stuck on felt? The only reason I use them is that is what wader boots are made of till recently.

[troutfiend1985]

Like I stated before, some like to claim to be flag waving conservationist. Until it becomes inconvenient. Sad really. You want undeniable proof that felt can help the spread?? I say provide undeniable proof it doesn't?

Unfortunatley Chief that's not how it works. In fact, I don't know of any place in life, whether its business or the courtroom where the moving party, or a party that is offering a proposition, is allowed to say "Hey, I want you to change and also, I want you to porve that I'm wrong or you will have to change." If you want people to change then you need to offer a reason why and then try to convince people of this reason.

Outside Bend, I think I would be more conviced when someone shows me why there are some streams that are heavily waded and affected with this stuff, and then other streams that are also heavily waded and nearby streams that are also heavily waded by the same people are not infected. Why is the White River below BSD infected, yet Taneycomo not? This part here isn't rocket science, and I'm not looking for undeniable proof. All I want is some form of proof that makes sense and ties together some of these loose ends. As soon as that happens, you'll have me on board.

[ness]

Lotsa studies mentioned there OB (and others). Got any links to some of them? I'd really like to know.

I think everyone agrees there's a pretty good chance that this stuff CAN be transported by felt soles. But it's a leap to conclude its presence at some popular fishing locations is all about the boots.

Chief chides conservationists that won't inconvenience themselves, and that's a valid point. But let's see the science and make our conclusions. I'd give up felt if I thought it was part of a problem, and I'd give up fishing altogether if something I am doing is causing harm.

Anybody remember whirling disease? Sometimes this stuff sorts itself out.

KCRiverrat -- did you let Evan Williams on the computer again?

[ozark trout fisher]

I just can't believe some of what I am reading here. Some here are pratically saying that yeah I may be spreading it, but I don't care. OTF is going to hold out until it is the PRIMARY cause. REALLY? The primary cause??? Any chance should be good enough. It is very ironic to read that we shouldn't fish for stressed trout in the heat of the summer because as sportsmen it is the right thing to do. But to hell with going without felt!

Like I stated before, some like to claim to be flag waving conservationist. Until it becomes inconvenient. Sad really. You want undeniable proof that felt can help the spread?? I say provide undeniable proof it doesn't?

Chief, you're sure good at trying to get people on your side. I'm about 80% of the way there, but then you start. Insulting everyone who is not entirely on board with you is not going to get anybody on your side.

I never said "to hell with going without felts." Nothing like that at all. Another case of you twisting my words to make some point. All I'm really asking you to do is provide some evidence that felt soles are linked to Didymo infection. It doesn't have to be entirely concrete, it doesn't have to be the primary cause, but you do have to present some viable evidence. As I said, in the meantime I will be washing my felt soles between trips and never using them anywhere Didymo exists. And I think that will be enough to insure that I am not contributing to the problem.

If you can provide some evidence, then I'll be on board 100% inconvinence or not.

[eric1978]

This thread is about banning things, as far as I am concerned for profit. A member here has suggested keeping contaminated waters free of felt. That IMHO is an answer to the problem with out getting in my and others pockets.

...unless you happen to fish the contaminated waters. So basically you're cool with a ban as long as you personally are not affected by it? Little NIMBY syndrome, huh?

And correct me if I'm wrong...the MO state government has not yet passed any legislation banning felt soles anywhere in the state, and if they did, who exactly would profit? I'd say Simms and Orvis would turn more dimes than MDC, so maybe you should revise your cartoon to include ALL parties guilty of picking pockets. Government may be corrupt and complicit, but they are not the driving force behind your alleged conspiracy, if in fact it is a conspiracy...corporations are.

[Trout Commander]

I for one can attest that my Simms Vibram soled boots offer nowhere near the traction of my super cheapo Red Head felt soled waders.

[flytyer57]

If you are really interested in helping to stop the spread of didymo and other invasive species, feel free to read the following articles. Some of you were asking for more info (proof) so I did a little research and found these articles. There are many more to read if you Google "Didymo and felt soles".

Didymo and felt soles studies.

Didymo Alert

NZ Fish & Game on Didymo

Studies on the survivability of the invasive diatom Didymosphenia geminata under a range of environmental and chemical conditions

Cary Institute of Ecosystem Studies