Global Warming Poll

[flytyer57]

Someone show me that this big battle to change the progression of climate change isn't making more billionaires than progress?

Or is it just the billionaires in the fossil fuel industry that are trying to manipulate the science in order to make billions more by destroying our planet by pushing their agenda and not trying to fix the problem?

[Tim Smith]

The big question is do we put our money and labor into preparation for climate change, or diddle around thinking we control it? Someone show me that this big battle to change the progression of climate change isn't making more billionaires than progress?

That's probably a good place to start, Wayne.

In the short term there is no political will to lower emissions (primarily due to a hellacious amount of misinformation but also because it involves real economic adjustments that most people don't want). The option we have left is to get ready for it, or to use one of Cold's buzz words, "adaptation".

The World Wildlife Fund specifically calls for "no regrets" adaptation. Do the things you should be doing anyway (planting and conserving trees, preventing coastal erosion, reducing pollution, increasing energy security) until the pain from climate change is great enough for people to start taking it seriously and address the underlying causes (if you want to see the front edge of the "pain" google "Marshall Islands" and "climate change").

As for making billionaires, I'm not sure I see anything wrong with involving capitalism in climate change adaptation. Pretty much nothing happens in this world without a business behind it to drive it along. For instance, I have a Belizean friend who is making a living restoring mangrove forests. He's not a billionaire, but he does feed himself and his family on the profits, and I couldn't be happier that he does.

[Tim Smith]

Welcome to the forum, Tim

You know, when I hear statistics like '95 percent of climate scientists', the skeptic in me says 'who did THAT poll, where'd they get the list of climate scientists from?' That smells a little like the hyperbole I mentioned earlier, but I don't really doubt there are a lot of scientists who think we have A role. We're just trying to get to how much.

Here's a link to an article about the Harris poll asking scientists their opinions about climate change.

Another recent poll from the Univeristy of Illinois at Chicago says essentially the same thing...but it was conducted by a geologist. Ness, how exactly would that mean it's more likely to be a lie?

Doran and Zimmerman

[ness]

Ness, how exactly would that mean it's more likely to be a lie?

Huh??

The first article (a mail-in opinion poll of climate scientists, not a scientific study and a conclusion) says 97% agree temps are up; 84% say humans have something to do with it; 54% say it's outside normal fluctuations. 54% is a push! That article kinda confirms my suspicion that this hasn't really all been figured out. And, to take an extreme -- on either side -- really ignores the accumulated science available at this point.

I bought a car ago that I really don't like that gets 50% better gas mileage than my beloved, go-anywhere, 4x4 Explorer. So, I'm suffering for the cause. We all should.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Or another analogy would be to consider our body as the planet Earth. By looking around we can quickly determine who cares about their planet and who doesn't.

We are each responsible for how we treat our own planet. And the more and the longer you abuse your planet, the longer and harder it is to fix.

***Edit****

Sorry about my late post. I was reading page two thinking, I guess, I was on page 3 and was posting to Al's and GM's analogy post. Please continue.

And Tim, glad to have you on board and good luck. I am pulling for you!

[Tim Smith]

Huh??

The first article (a mail-in opinion poll of climate scientists, not a scientific study and a conclusion) says 97% agree temps are up; 84% say humans have something to do with it; 54% say it's outside normal fluctuations. 54% is a push! That article kinda confirms my suspicion that this hasn't really all been figured out. And, to take an extreme -- on either side -- really ignores the accumulated science available at this point.

I bought a car ago that I really don't like that gets 50% better gas mileage than my beloved, go-anywhere, 4x4 Explorer. So, I'm suffering for the cause. We all should.

Yeah I feel you on the transportation issue. Like you I've scaled down from a Silverado (and man I miss that truck). I'm also trying to walk the talk. I've got 22,000 mangrove propagules in the ground since 2007 (although the ridiculous amount of traveling I do probably offsets whatever good karma that might give me...I'm trying to fix that). We all have work to do.

But just because somethings aren't known doesn't mean that the essentials aren't known. Saying that the current rise is outside normal fluctuations does not mean that the temperature rise itself is natural. It just means we've seen temperatures go up before. There are mangrove fossils in the ridge just west of Denver. The northern range of mangroves is now in Louisiana. Yes, of course, the planet has seen rising temperatures before. Of course there are still specific questions, especially about the local effects of climate change (for instance it's snowing like crazy in Buffalo New York this year...primarily because Lake Erie was hotter than it ever had been going into the winter and the lake effect has gone nuts).

But as the article says...

Only 5% believe that that human activity does not contribute to greenhouse warming; the rest are unsure.

Even climate scientists like Pielke who think carbon isn't the most important cause of global warming still think we should reduce emissions.

I'm glad you agree.

EDIT: As a side point, most surveys are done with a mail in format and there is a body of statistical science that makes that a widely accepted and rigorous way to determine opinions in a group. The study in question was conducted for the Harris group through George Mason University and was as scientific as it gets.

[Tim Smith]

Or another analogy would be to consider our body as the planet Earth. By looking around we can quickly determine who cares about their planet and who doesn't.

We are each responsible for how we treat our own planet. And the more and the longer you abuse your planet, the longer and harder it is to fix.

And Tim, glad to have you on board and good luck. I am pulling for you!

Fully agreed and thank you, Chief.

I'm pulling for you too.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I'm pulling for you too.

Hey, thanks. But I will just mostly watch this one from the side this time. I know what it is like to present facts to only have them, by some accounts, trumped by sound bites and opinions.

[Outside Bend]

Or another analogy would be to consider our body as the planet Earth. By looking around we can quickly determine who cares about their planet and who doesn't.

We are each responsible for how we treat our own planet. And the more and the longer you abuse your planet, the longer and harder it is to fix.

I tend to think of it more like the last half-hour aboard the Titanic- despite overwhelming evidence the place crashing down all around you, let's keep the band playing, let's everyone remain calm, nothing to worry about...

[flytyer57]

I was reading page two thinking...

Hope you didn't hurt yourself.