Cattleman Kills Mountain Lion In Ray County

[Ham]

Again, lots of freakin cows and too few Mtn Lions.

I wouldn't have shot the Mtn Lion.

I don't think it was necessary to shoot the Mtn Lion.

I "miss" the cat. I hate that it was killed. I think the shooting of that Mtn Lion likely had more to do with bragging rights than protection of cows and calves.

I think there is great value in wild things and wild places even if they pose some level of risk to people.

I'm not opposed to hunting. I'm not opposed to selective harvest when fishing. I am against unecessary killing based on greed or ego, or fear.

[jdmidwest]

I wouldn't shoot him, that much I know. If I thought he was about to...would I allow what? He hasn't done anything. I thought you were innocent until proven guilty in this country? He should have called MDC and they could have tranquilized the cat and relocated it. There was no need to kill it.

And don't farmers have insurance anyway? What happens if a tornado comes through and wipes out an entire herd? You can't kill a tornado with a .22.

As a farmer, our herd is only insured for liability in case they get out and damage others or property, not for replacement value. A cow here and there would not be worth a claim. I am sure there is a possibility that he was insured for replacement value, but why bother, 10 cents did the job.

How long do you think the cat would have stayed in that tree? And, what could have happened if that cat came out of the tree in a bad mood? His prize coon hounds could have been worth more than a cow for that matter.

[Trout Commander]

Missouri’s Wildlife Code protects mountain lions, but the Wildlife Code also allows the killing of any mountain lion that attacks or kills livestock or domestic animals or threatens human safety. People who kill mountain lions must report the incident to MDC immediately and turn over the intact carcass, including the pelt, within 24 hours.

Prosecuting Attorney: When you shot the cat, up in the tree, Mr. Littleton, which of your domesticated animals was it attacking or killing?

Littelton: It wasn't.

PA: Oh, so then assuming that your cattle can't climb trees, which they can't can they Bob???

Littelton: No, sir, my cattle can't climb trees.

PA: Well then it must have been a person that the cat was up in the tree after, we need to get you some sort of a medal for saving someones life Mr. Littleton! Maybe, a key to the Capitol Building should be presented as well! The cat was after all attacking a human wasn't it Mr. Littleton?

Littleton: No, it wasn't.

PA: Well then I'm sorry Bob, no medal or key to the capitol building for you, but do you think you could tell me why the cat was up in that tree when you shot it?

Littleton: Well (Jim) and (Terry's) dogs ran it up into the tree.

PA: So you and (Jim)and (Terry) were out Mountain Lion hunting and (Jim) and (Terry's) dogs treed the cat?

Littleton: No, (Jim) and (Terry) were coon hunting and the cat was treed.

PA: And where were you when this took place?

Littleton: I was inside my house.

PA: And when you left your house what was your intent?

Littleton: To shoot that cattle eating son of a gun!

PA: Well now you have me confused... The cat was in a tree, and you told me that your cattle can't climb trees. Can you further explain how the Mountain Lion was eating your cattle in the tree that your cattle couldn't climb?

Littleton: Well the cat wasn't eating a cow up in the tree!

PA: So you shot a Mountain Lion that was not attacking your livestock, domestic animals or a human being?

Littleton: Yes, but he had ate a couple of my best calves already!

PA: And this was the same cat that had ate your cattle?

Littleton: Yes.

PA: And I assume you have sufficient evidence here with you today to support that claim. Perhaps photo or video footage of a high enough quality to successfully determine that it was a Mountain Loin and not a coyote, bobcat or feral dog? Furthermore the evidence should substantiate that it was the Mountain Lion you shot and not another animal of the same species. DNA evidence or the similar would be more concrete. Regardless, I would like to see that evidence.

Littleton: Well I don't have anything of that sort.

[Terry Beeson]

OK... First of all, I see a lot of "assume," "think," and "what I'd do.". Sorry, but we were not in the farmer's shoes.

Second, I respect all your opinions in principle, but there are some very weak arguments here in MY opinion.

I agree to disagree with those I disagree with and will leave it at that.

May we all live on tofu and have a Mt lion in every yard...

[Stoneroller]

next time you take your kids out in the woods and you spy your eye upon the wiley and elusive black angus, make sure you take pictures so your children can enjoy that special moment for the rest of their lives.

[Outside Bend]

How long do you think the cat would have stayed in that tree? And, what could have happened if that cat came out of the tree in a bad mood? His prize coon hounds could have been worth more than a cow for that matter.

As long as we're dealing in hypotheticals, what if he'd just wounded the cat with his .22 caliber rifle? A wounded animal is far more dangerous, and one could argue he was risking his lives and property more by shooting it with an underpowered weapon than by leaving it alone.

Far and away one of the better posts on these related threads, Trout Commander. I was curious if the guy reported the cattle killings which he said occurred months ago, and whether they had been investigated as lion kills or if it was just a hunch...

It's probably a moot point though, I really doubt MDC is going to do too much investigating of this one.

[Wayne SW/MO]

As a farmer, our herd is only insured for liability in case they get out and damage others or property, not for replacement value. A cow here and there would not be worth a claim. I am sure there is a possibility that he was insured for replacement value, but why bother, 10 cents did the job.

How long do you think the cat would have stayed in that tree? And, what could have happened if that cat came out of the tree in a bad mood? His prize coon hounds could have been worth more than a cow for that matter.

Couple of things, do cattlemen have calves now? It seems a little early to me.

I've run hounds and they can take care of themselves, not that the cat would have come down with the dogs there.

I think the guy needed an excuse. I wonder if the MDC will release information the stomach contents.

[Terry Beeson]

Wayne... Not every cattle farmer "times" the calving season. They let the bulls run with the herd all the time. So, any time is calving time. Growing up, we had cows calving all year. (Not that it is the best practice...)

He didn't need an excuse... All he would have needed was a backhoe or a shovel and some elbow grease. I think calling the MDC after the kill says a lot, but then, as I say, I don't know. I wasn't there.

[jdmidwest]

Organized cattle farms artificially inseminate and control the drop time now. Most family farms do as Beeson stated. We controlled ours by separating the bull and controlling them in that manner and our cows usually calved in Feb and March. If a cow did not take, it spent time with a bull and calved at a different time from the rest. Calving usually timed out right for the calves to reach the best size for market the following spring when prices peaked out. There were times in the snow, we lost a few calves to coyotes years ago. The solution, let some professional coyote hunters hunt your farm.

Pumping the lions stomach would not prove much. Guilty by association should be good enough to qualify the landowner in protection of his property. If there were charges, I think they would have shown up by now.

As far as the 22 lr is concerned, the article starts with coon hounds with something up a tree. Would you be expecting to have a one in a thousand encounter with a mtn. lion or assume it is a coon or possum? It is furbearer season, he was probably a coon hunter since he owned coon hounds, and the weapon you are allowed to use to dispatch the furbearer is a 22 lr. A head shot on anything with a 22 is usually lethal. It is the weapon of choice when the local meat processor came to butcher a beef for us on the farm. Cats usually wilt pretty easy when shot, they are not tough like bears or coyotes.

[Justin Spencer]

The article I read said the farmer was missing one calf all together, had one maimed calf, and a cow with claw marks on the rear. If my living came from raising cattle you better believe that would be one dead kitty. As someone who raises a few cattle for my own use I think I would have called MDC in hopes they would trap and relocate the animal, but I think we all know what the odds of that happening would be. I don't know of any restitution that is paid to farmers who lose animals due to predation, that is just part of the game. We have coyotes hanging on fence posts all over the place and they seldom harm livestock but I doubt many feel bad that they are needlessly shot. If this were an endangered species given full protection it would be a different story, but they are not at risk of extinction and while I hope there will always be a few around it seems like MDC would just as soon have them shot to avoid the dreaded breeding population.