Canoe Traffic

[gonefishin]

Might try getting some people together with video cameras. Send the resulting videos to news stations around the state.

[mwkojack]

Many Islands isn't to blame. Spring River Oaks isn't to blame. Riverside isn't to blame. The people that run these places are all good people and try there best to keep the riff raff out. The blame has to go to alcohol/drugs. You take away the alcohol and suddenly the river is not Arkansas' biggest cocktail party with topless girls and fighting hooligans. Can you take it away? I doubt it. Too many people spend too much money on the area and the money generated is all upon the promise of having a good time drinking beer and the possibilty of seeing some girl flash herself to the crowd for cheers and beers. Money is what drives everything that happens.

Might try getting some people together with video cameras. Send the resulting videos to news stations around the state.

They did that. Its a video called "girls gone wild."

[Ham]

I've done the Spring river during the summer binge drinking period and I will not be back. I will not be on the Spring river between Dam 3 and Many Islands on any month between May and September.

Below Many Islands. It is a different river.

The Ozark Hellbender is doomed if it depends on the Spring river for its survival.

The bad behavior demonstrated every weekend from May through September can not be overstated. I'm amazed there isn't a drowning every weekend.

Enforcement of existing laws could make a difference.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Like Al said its not just the Spring, or Arkansas rivers. I've watched the Niangua here in Missouri suffer the same fate.

I think much of it could be solved by rolling back the clock. The DNR here could simply have outfitters fall back to their records of about 25 years ago, and then give everyone 5 years to get back to those numbers, new outfitters would have to do something else after that time.

[Crippled Caddis]

Many Islands isn't to blame. Spring River Oaks isn't to blame. Riverside isn't to blame. The people that run these places are all good people and try there best to keep the riff raff out.

I suppose 2 out of 3 isn't too bad. I am familiar with all 3 operations and am acqainted with all three owner/operators. You are correct in the case of Spring River Oaks.

On Tuesday morning I took 'Watchers' suggestion and contacted the Arkansas Attorney General's office through the link he posted above. Late that afternoon I was contacted by phone by a representative of the AG's office, Ms. Heather Richardson, who handles environmemtal concerns for the AG. Ms. Richardson was only too familiar with the problems on the river. She and her husband are (I take it from our conversation) avid canoists. They were more than shocked by what they witnessed on the river and in camp that weekend. They were privy to the riot at one of the campgrounds cited above that require the presence of 2 local officers and 4 state enforcement personnel. Our conversation produced nothing new. As several have already stated on this thread it isn't the absence of applicable law and statute that lies at the heart of the problem. It is the absence of the will to enforce the existing law that is the crux of the problem.

And so long as the area exists to a large degree off of the profits realized through harboring the lawless element that creates the problems then no effort will be made to uphold the law. In short it is a political football and everyone in a position to contribute to alleviating the situation doesn't want to get anywhere close to the ball. Until such time that the general public demands enforcement nothing will happen. Just don't look for the good 'burgers' and 'Churchmen' of the area to lead the charge because it is NOT in their vested interest to do so.

Ms. Richardson voiced willingness to discuss it with anyone who wishes so if you think you have something to contribute or just wish to relate more, perhaps pertinent, information to her contact her through the link above or by phone.

[mwkojack]

I suppose 2 out of 3 isn't too bad. I am familiar with all 3 operations and am acqainted with all three owner/operators. You are correct in the case of Spring River Oaks.

I am good friends with all three. Worked for one, dated anothers daughter, and turkey hunted with the third. If you are saying they aren't good people then you just don't know them. I doubt you have been around when one of the "riots" happens. First of all, its not like when they are checking into a camp we could inspect their car to make sure they were not smuggling drugs or guns or knives. Second, we can ask them to behave but human nature keeps them from doing it. Third, these riots happen quick. One moment you are taking the last of the canoes across the tracks and then you get a call on your radio saying they need you help back and the camp because there is a fight and the security guard can't handle it and the police are 10 minutes away. So you race back down to camp with a loaded trailor full of canoes and jump out of the truck and there they are. Like back in school, a bunch of people standing around watching a fight thats out of control. I guess you could say its you fault because you let the wrong people in but how do you know which ones are the good ones.

If you want to get onto someone. Get onto Howard. His place is the main reason there are so many problems on the river. He should be fined. He's the one letting strippers perform on his deck. He is the one handing out MJ to everyone. He is the one who plays loud music and caters alcohol to minors. Before you start blaming people. Get out on the river for yourself on 4th of July or Memorial day weekend and watch where the trouble is. Its at saddler falls. I'm not really sure which land owner/s owns the rocks there but it the wanted to enforce no tresspassing laws they could substantially decrease the ruckass on the river.

By the way neighbor, you and I are probably friends too. I'm not trying to piss you off but I don't like it when people talk about my friends. If someone was griping about you I would probably take up for you too.

Sincerely, Owner of Dry falls.

[Crippled Caddis]

[quote:I am good friends with all three. Worked for one, dated anothers daughter, and turkey hunted with the third.>

I readily admit that I probably don't know the gentlemen in question as well as you do. I also admit that I like all three of them. But if you are as familiar with what goes on on the river as your post would indicate then you know as well as I do where it originates. If you are conversant with any of the local law enforcement personnel then you know the locations of most of their calls to deal with troubles also.

<If you want to get onto someone. Get onto Howard. His place is the main reason there are so many problems on the river. He should be fined. He's the one letting strippers perform on his deck. He is the one handing out MJ to everyone. He is the one who plays loud music and caters alcohol to minors. Before you start blaming people. Get out on the river for yourself on 4th of July or Memorial day weekend and watch where the trouble is. Its at saddler falls. I'm not really sure which land owner/s owns the rocks there but it the wanted to enforce no tresspassing laws they could substantially decrease the ruckass on the river.>

An excellent point. That too should be addressed by the authorities.

<By the way neighbor, you and I are probably friends too. I'm not trying to piss you off but I don't like it when people talk about my friends. If someone was griping about you I would probably take up for you too.>

I appreciate that in more ways than one. Our only difference is that you view the thread as a personal attack on your friends while I view it as a dispassionate look at the trouble the river is in and where the problems originate. My fealty is to the river. Your's lies with your friends. That is often commendable, but in this case it does the river no good. Ultimately every one of the individuals, and perhaps yourself, depend on the river for their livlihood. Defending the resource is no less in their interests than it is in that of the users. Perhaps even more so.

[gonefishin]

Many Islands isn't to blame. Spring River Oaks isn't to blame. Riverside isn't to blame. The people that run these places are all good people and try there best to keep the riff raff out. The blame has to go to alcohol/drugs. You take away the alcohol and suddenly the river is not Arkansas' biggest cocktail party with topless girls and fighting hooligans. Can you take it away? I doubt it. Too many people spend too much money on the area and the money generated is all upon the promise of having a good time drinking beer and the possibilty of seeing some girl flash herself to the crowd for cheers and beers. Money is what drives everything that happens.

They did that. Its a video called "girls gone wild."

So are you complaining or promoting?

I myself would never look at a girl who took her top off.

[Scooper]

Interesting thread. My brother, my (then 84) Dad and I made the mistake of floating the Niangua River on a Saturday a few years ago. We were fishing, so we put in at sunrise at the Bennett Springs Access. We had the river virtually to ourselves until we reached the first private campground (NRO). The canoes coming out of the launch site reminded me of hornets flying out of a hive. We had our old 1958 square-stern Grumman with a three-horse motor on the back. As we maneuvered through the flotilla of drunken canoeists, we were repeatedly peppered with "hey, that's not fair" (to have a motor), "can we hitch a ride?" All that's OK, (but a little tiresome when you hear the same thing over and over). What is more than just a little annoying is to get blasted by the "water cannons" some of these jackasses had. It didn't matter to them that we had our elderly father in the canoe, who really didn't appreciate the soaking. After a couple of miles, we evenually outran them. We vowed never to float on weekends again. Unfortunately, I think this problem is nation-wide. It's just a lack of civility and rudeness that reflects a society "where anything goes." Here's a link to an interesting article on this topic that appeared in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stor...9D?OpenDocument

[Wayne SW/MO]

Further down the river, Erin Ryan, 24, of Glasgow Village, described the float streams as a place to "cut loose, relax, let off some steam" but "definitely for mature audiences."

She said families with young children should probably steer clear of the Saturday scene. "Do you bring a 10-year-old to a strip club or Party Cove or a casino?" she said. "Why would you bring them to a place where they are going to see body parts?"

What an ignorant statement! Apparently she believes that she and those like her decide what public venues will be suitable for families.