The He! With It

[eric1978]

I know I'm a little late on this thread, but....

I completely agree with you MIC!!!! There are a lot of great people on this site and a lot great information but some people (ERIC1978) get off on telling people they're wrong.

Eric, you literally have to enter something negative towards the other members of this forum in 90% of your posts and then you don't let it go when people tell you they're tired of listening to you. Take a hint... Stop telling people how to act in the outdoors. No one on hear wants to hear it! Especially from you. I know it's tough to hear, but you don't know everything! The thing is, I agree with you on several issues, such as bed fishing, handling fish, conservation, etc. But your negative 2 cents every time someone posts a report or topic that isn't the exact way you would do it is really f'ing annoying!!! Everyone on this forum knows your views on conservation and stream anonymity... so stop repeating yourself and pissing off members of this forum who actually add valuable info.

MIC, I really hope you continue to post reports because a lot of people, including myself, really enjoy them. I love reading reports, constructive topics, and looking at pictures on this site because it's my way of enjoying fishing when I can't get out and fish.

Geez, little sensitive there?

I'M negative? I think we've just confirmed that at least 1 out of every 20 posts YOU make is negative and quite nasty on top of it. I didn't TELL anyone what to do, I just made the SUGGESTION that it's POSSIBLE that extra attention drawn to a tiny wild rainbow stream MIGHT not be a great idea. So don't go twisting reality around and act like I made some kind of ridiculous demand. I know for a fact that I'm not the only one who feels this way, but so far no one on this side has chimed in, and that's fine, but you all need to stop pretending I committed some kind of moral felony by raising a legitemate question. I don't expect everyone to like me personally, but to blow my comment out of proportion just to dogpile on me is disingenuous. I have the feeling that if you posted more often I would find a bunch of reasons to dislike you, too, but I wouldn't pretend it was because you suggested to someone not to sight fish a spawning smallie off a bed. Get it?

THIS is why there's so much bickering here...because every opinion offered that's not agreed with is taken as a personal assault instead of just conversation. I've been making a point lately to stay out of the more controversial threads because I know I draw a lot of heat when I'm in the ring, even though it always takes at least two to tango. But I'm not going to stop pointing out what I consider to be valid points on this topic or that. Besides, what's the point of a forum whose members in toto just nod their heads in agreement? A forum is for discussion, not for stroking egos or tenderly caressing the delicate balance of those who can't handle a little adversity. Go to the forum at insecurityissues.com if that's what you're looking for. So lighten up, Francis...go have a doobie or something. You're wound a little tight.

[awhuber]

If you click next to your name at the top of the page you can ignore posters...I'm just saying...

[Buzz]

I just wanted to say that I have read all off your posts MIC and enjoyed each of them. I am also sorry I never made you aware of that. Keep posting. I may or may not ever be able to fish Blue Springs, but whether I post a comment or not I still enjoy reading them.

I didn't TELL anyone what to do, I just made the SUGGESTION that it's POSSIBLE that extra attention drawn to a tiny wild rainbow stream MIGHT not be a great idea. So don't go twisting reality around and act like I made some kind of ridiculous demand. I know for a fact that I'm not the only one who feels this way, but so far no one on this side has chimed in......

You are right Eric. I will say that I have changed my posting methods over the last few years about some of the more fragile streams that I and a few of other forum members fish for both wild trout and smallmouth. The reasons are the same that you give. On the other hand I have no problems posting reports about Crane. It is a fairly long creek and as long as I don't state specific locations I don't see any problem with it. Crane can be fickle, so I don't worry so much about it as some of the other streams that I've fished with Chief and Wheatie. Those are the creeks that I will protect. Besides, if you don't know what you are doing and not fishing with live bait your first trip to Crane it will most likely be your last.

Last summer I posted a report about a fishing trip with my sons that I called "Paradise Creek" and it truly is and I would like to keep it that way. I also was very descriptive about the creek itself and all of the lures we used to catch fish. I hope readers enjoyed it.

To all posters on this forum: Post what you want, how you want. Use your own discretion as to how much info you incorporate into the post. Pictures, flies, and how you caught them is enough for me. If I want more info I'll PM you. Likewise for any of my posts.

Buzz

[FishinCricket]

Mic,

You keep right on posting, and give as much information as you like, I do, Dont think that MDC has'nt built into their regulations for maximun ammount of fishing pressure, and some abuse of regulations. If they see a problem with a fishery they'll make changes. (Fly fishing)for me is a legacy, I want to bring as many people into this sport as I can. I have'nt been fly fishing for very long and I remember a couple of years ago I was fishing a tailwater in oklahoma for the first time and struggling to hook up with a fish, and there was a gentlman just up from me who was doing quite well so I asked him what fly he was using and he would not tell me, like I was asking some giant secret, anyway from that day I go out of my way to aid other anglers, if you ask me what fly I'm using I'm going to hand you one. I'll show you what rock their hiding behind, as long as you dont crowd me

P.S. 22.5 yrs USAF and also a PM

Gregg

I don't think there's one fisherman here who would refuse to tell you what they were using.. Honestly, most I've met off of the board would offer you a copy of the one that's banging em, along with the proper amount of weight to get it down to the bottom "cause that's the trick today"..

just my opinion for what it's worth.. I'd bet, if you think about it, you'd agree, wouldn't ya Gregg?

[Al Agnew]

I guess the last time this argument came up was when I posted about the two great smallmouth trips I had on an un-named stream. I've since told several Ozarkanglers where it was in PMs, but will not name it publicly. Why? Sure, there's an element of selfishness. How many floatable (even marginally floatable), spectacularly beautiful, and spectacularly great fishing streams do YOU know that you have yet to see another floater on in the middle of the summer? That stream could take some use and still produce excellent fishing, but a creek that good where you can truly EXPECT to have to yourself is rare enough that it's worth trying to keep it that way. Why name it?

On the other hand, Blue Springs Creek is known to trout anglers in MO. When it comes to trout waters, the limited number of streams guarantees that all of them will be known. And as others have pointed out, BSC is tough fishing at best. The average trip report, telling of a bunch of 6-8 inchers and maybe one or two barely over 12 inches, probably isn't going to bring a flock of meat hunters to descend upon it. In fact, a trip report on BSC such as Mic's is great in the obvious appreciation of small, tough, technical water, not in the bragging on big fish caught. Catch a big one out of BSC, and you're bound to crow about it due to the fact that it isn't an easy thing to accomplish, and that should come through on your report. You don't have to tell the exact hole where you caught it, but telling that you caught it on BSC seems to me to be necessary to the crowing...after all, if somebody thinks you might have caught an 18 incher on the Eleven Point, that isn't nearly the feat that catching an 18 incher on BSC is.

On a stream like the Current at Tan Vat, where everybody and his dog fishes, I don't even think it makes any difference if you tell exactly where you caught a fish. And on one of the bigger trout streams, it certainly doesn't make much difference if you tell the stretch where you fished.

On smallmouth float streams, maybe it's a little grayer area. I personally won't name the exact stretch of the Meramec where I happen to catch a bunch of big smallies, but I might name the stretch where I had an average fishing day, or not, depending upon what I'm really reporting.

I don't think it's an exact science figuring out how specific to be. But when I have a terrific fishing day on a lesser known stream (and I don't think any of the blue/red/white ribbon trout streams qualify as lesser known), I won't name the exact stream stretch if it's a float stream, or name the stream at all if it's a wading size stream. Use your own judgment.

[ness]

A stream like BSC can only handle a couple fishermen a day. Since it's 90 minutes from St. Louis and all on easily-accessible public land, it's gonna get fished. But each one of us has to decide for ourselves if the pluses of writing a report justify the minuses. The reality of this forum is that this information is available to everyone. You don't even have to be a member to read what's on here, you just need computer access. And, it's here basically forever.

Sure, all these streams are known -- a quick Google will get you the names. But that doesn't mean they're all the same. I elect not to post on the smaller, more fragile and intimate streams. I know the chances of me finding a car or two at the access go up if I talk about it. And, I know two cars means I'm not gonna bother fishing BSC that day. Call me greedy or stingy if you like, but if I drive the 4-plus hours to BSC, I'd like to get a chance to fish it.

Also, I've never really felt the need to tell the world about my fishing (successes or failures), but choose to share the most with people I know -- and who think the same way about these things as I do. But, I don't really care if people look at it the other way either.

It's the age of the internet, and the game is changing. I'm gonna tilt it in my favor when I can.

[drath]

Maybe I’m wrong but I find it hard to believe that there are many people out there searching every nook and cranny of the internet looking for a tiny creek, with no casting room, which can’t hold more than 4 anglers at a time, in which they may be able to catch (and release) a handful of spooky 4-7 inch rainbows. If I showed pictures of my trips to BSC to the guys in my bass club they’d say, “You drive an hour and a half to catch 7 of those?” No offense folks, but we’re kinda weird; even as fisherman go. I have a feeling that this creek could run through the shadows of The Arch and not see much more pressure than it already does.

I totally see both sides of this topic and to be honest; I don’t know where I stand on advertising honey holes. But I simply don’t think that there are many people out there that would consider BSC a quality fishery. Those of us who do, have a little gem to ourselves. However, I’d be willing to bet that a good portion of people drive to that creek for the first time, look at it, can’t find a 4ft. deep hole, get skunked, assume it holds no fish, and call the drive a waste of time never to go back. Or catch a few 4-6 inchers and think, "Big Whoop!"

I had the creek all to myself on a beautiful, sunny, 40 degree Saturday in January. Why? Everybody and their brother should have had cabin fever yet I had the creek to myself. I guess it was because no one read Mic’s reports? That creek has been there for a long time. It’s listed on several web sites, MDC maps, books, magazines, and yet it’s still surviving with a decent population of wild bows. I don’t think Mic’s reports are gonna kill it. In my opinion, people just don’t “get” what we “get” about that little brook. Reporting how hard it was to catch ten to twenty 6” bows ain’t gonna change that. Now, if you report that you nailed three 17 inchers we’ve got a whole ‘nuther story.

-D

Side note: Man, this thread took off like a rocket!

[Outside Bend]

To me, the value of the nuts-and-bolts, "I fished on stream X with lure Y and caught Q number fish in Z hole," aren't all that valuable to begin with. It's a matter of preference, but I always enjoy a good story over a sterile, clinical report of the day's fishing.

A report is a snapshot in time of a constantly changing system, and just because mic caught 23 fish on zebra midges when it was 40 degrees and the stream was flowing at 12 CFS doesn't mean I'll catch 23 fish on zebra midges when it's 60 degrees this week and the stream is at 16 CFS.

I've had days on the Current where every standard fly I've used and caught fish there in the past did nothing, and I've had days where my buddies and I have caught fish even though each of us was using something different- there was a trip this time last year where I was only catching fish on caddis dries, parachutes, and mohair leeches, a buddy was only catching them on griffith's gnats and zebra midges, a third was only catching then on copper johns, and a third was catching fish consistently on a #10 black cricket. In February. I know that scenario isn't typical for that stream, I'm not sure those results could be replicated, and I'm not sure the value of reporting those results.

It reminds me of a story of a western fly shop owner who's favorite daily routine was waiting for anglers to come back after a day's fishing and report their catch. Some folks would swear soft-hackles were the only thing producing that day, others would say all they caught fish on where Pheasant Tail nympsh, others could only get bit using San Juan worms, others only wooly buggers, others only foam ants, etc. Patience and technique has a lot to do with it, as much or more so than the specific pattern you're using.

Anyawy, IMO if you want to know what stream to fish, what patterns to use, and what holes or riffles to hit- your best bet is to hire a guide. A lot of the pleasure I derive from fishing is a result of solving the puzzles myself, not having the answers given to me. Unlike a guide I'm not compensated for my experience, and I derive no benefit from sharing everything I know, much less the very few places in the Ozarks I can fish and feel reasonably alone. So I keep a lot of it under my hat.

That's not to say I'm not going to try and be helpful to folks on the stream, or on the forum. Personally I like Buzz's position- if you're curious to know where I was fishing, or what I was using, send me a PM.

[troutfiend1985]

First off, bashing on Eric isn't the answer. Whoever posted that they were tired of hearing Eric should just avert their eyes to his posts, Eric's a good guy and has interesting and realistic viewpoints on matters. Not everything on here is a personal attack, but calling someone annoying(among other things) goes beyond taking a different viewpoint of someone.

Having said that, posting on the public streams isn't the worst thing on earth. I personally have forgotten how tough Crane was, and Lilley did a good job reminding me. That stream(crane), and those trout are their for a reason, they're tough. Now, does that mean I'm going to post where I saw big trout, no. Why? Because I'm selfish, and I don't want to just put that info out to anyone and someone could always PM me if they so desire. But talking about effective flies and techniques a for a certain stream shouldn't be frowned upon. I think in the future that I will try to start adding a few photos of my trips.

[T Hood]

Mic:

I've only fished BSC once (and caught hell from the wife for going there, I might add). But, it was tremendous. I still have very little clue what I'm doing, have never touched a fly rod, but plan to go again as soon as possible because it reminds me so much of the streams and rivers I visited growing up in Michigan. (Minus a ton of Pine trees!). From where I stand, share what you are willing to share.

Not to hijack the thread, but, I'm studying for the PMP exam right now. If you have any tips for a budding PM, send me a message. I'd enjoy the chance to exchange info offline.

Troy