Actually found this on a google ad

[Don]

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"Ignorance and apathy are the principle enemies of freedom, surpassing even evil intent. Misguided good intentions are their greatest ally."--Myself

How true. Good one.

Don

[skeeter]

With the discussion about alternative energy sources you never seem to hear anything anymore about shale oil. Supposed to be more of the stuff locked up in the rocks of the Western U. S. and Canada than all the reserves of Saudi. Yeah, I know it's not an alternative fuel but it is an alternative DOMESTIC source. Can't help but wonder how high a BBL. of oil is going to have to sell for to make extracting the stuff economically viable ?

The majority of coal has been supplied from the Powder River Basin in Wyoming for some time now. It's an open pit type strip mining operation and is the prime source for Federally mandated low sulfur coal. Don't know how much is still shaft mined from Appalachia. That leaves the coal fields of Illinois to provide coal for gasification plants and I believe there is some movement there already.

Biodiesel ? Yep, I'd love to run it in my Ford dually, but tell me where to buy it ? Sure don't have time to "refine" it in my back yard from leftover cooking oil like several people do. Drove a rental diesel Volvo in Spain last year and you couldn't hardly tell it was a diesel. Great performance and quiet to boot. Feds mandated Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel last Fall with the promise we'd get those same diesels like the Euro's have been driving. Have yet to see one. All ULS diesel has done so far is give poorer mileage, caused premature injector wear due to loss of lubricity and run the cost of diesel up even higher. If you know anything about cracking crude ( refining ) the $0.20+/gal. premium diesel sells at compared to unleaded gas is just another rip-off.

[Al Agnew]

Last I read, shale oil was still far too expensive to extract, something like a hundred thousand bucks a barrel.

Whatever they're using the coal for, they're still mining a LOT of Appalachian coal. If you don't know about mountaintop removal mining, it is just what it sounds like. Tear down the whole top of the mountain to get at the coal seam partway down it, dump all the overburden into the valley below and fill it up, remove the coal, then as long as the inspectors keep on their toes, "reclaim" it by smoothing everything out and planting it in grass. Looks like a moonscape while being mined, and at best like a golf course once it's finished and reclaimed.

Which, as I said before and discussed with Crippled Caddis...is that what we want? Do we want to tear up huge chunks of the West to get out coal and maybe oil shale, and continue tearing up huge chunks of the most beautiful mountain country of the East to get coal, and trust the big energy companies and the government to make sure we produce energy from it "cleanly"? Do we want to pay ALL the costs of continuing to depend upon fossil fuels?

[Wayne SW/MO]

Do we want to pay ALL the costs of continuing to depend upon fossil fuels?

We certainly seem to be preoccupied with non-renewable energy sources. I think most of that is due to the capital investments, which date back a century or so.

[Al Agnew]

Sure, Wayne, and it's also because that's where the money and power is. Think any oil or coal company is going to encourage any kind of alternative energy as long as there is oil and coal to be had? What is the percentage of campaign funds donated by the coal and oil companies, compared to funds donated by, say, the still struggling solar power industry?

[Wayne SW/MO]

Think any oil or coal company is going to encourage any kind of alternative energy as long as there is oil and coal to be had?

I don't know Al if its because they can be had as much as that they are guaranteed a good profit because their capital investments are secure.

Unfortunately when it comes to political contributions, both sides do well, but there is no political spectrum, only far right and left anymore.

Its been said that any problem in a democracy such as ours can be solved, if there's a dollar to be made.