Northerns

[aftersh0ck]

The MDC has dabbled with stocking muskie in area lakes for over 30 years and know that reproduction is likely to be about 0 in missouri. northern pike though are found in missouri and do reproduce naturally here especially in the upper parts of streams like the meramec.

with characteristics, size, feeding habits about the same. suprised they didnt put

more emphasize in them instead. especially in the cool clear lakes of the ozarks and the others with similar water with

chance of them possibly create there own small to normal population without needing to be restocked or as often.

If theres something im overlooking please enlighten me.

[Kayser]

You can control the size of the muskie population by stopping stocking. Northerns could get out of control if they start reproducing naturally, and will eat pretty much anything they want.

Rob

[Dutch]

They did stock them at Stockton. They all died out. Then they stocked Tiger Muskie. They all died out.

[Al Agnew]

Umm, actually northern pike are not native to anywhere in MO except being very rare in a couple of north Missouri streams. Don't know where you got the idea that they are in the Ozark streams like the Meramec. Northern pike are a fish of higher latitudes than Missouri, and probably would never survive and reproduce in most of this state. Muskie, on the other hand, are native to latitudes as far south as Missouri (a number of streams in Tennessee have native muskie). So while they don't reproduce in Missouri, they can certainly live here.

The only true native pike species in the Ozarks are the grass and chain pickerel.

[laker67]

I have caught the grass pickerel in the current. I understand that mdc has re introduced them to a few streams in the southern part of missouri.

[aftersh0ck]

I was going to say that about pickerel also, used to catch those fishing for crappie at duck creek.

while sitting inside while it snows decided to find my old missouri fishes book i have not read in probally 23 years which got me thinking about all this.

and it shows northerns on the meramec the same place ive caught the only one in my life.

remember talking to the guy that owned the canoe rental place after we got back about it and him telling me about how many he caught in years past.

as for muskie in streams, says they are in the creek below indian trails hatchery that escaped when it floods.

says they were first introduced to missouri in 1965

http://mdc.mo.gov/fishing/fish-catch/game-fish/muskie

[Tim Smith]

I was going to say that about pickerel also, used to catch those fishing for crappie at duck creek.

while sitting inside while it snows decided to find my old missouri fishes book i have not read in probally 23 years which got me thinking about all this.

and it shows northerns on the meramec the same place ive caught the only one in my life.

remember talking to the guy that owned the canoe rental place after we got back about it and him telling me about how many he caught in years past.

as for muskie in streams, says they are in the creek below indian trails hatchery that escaped when it floods.

says they were first introduced to missouri in 1965

http://mdc.mo.gov/fishing/fish-catch/game-fish/muskie

The Illinois Department of Conservation (back when it was called that) did extensive studies of the success of different sizes and species of esocid stocking and they saw very little success with Northern Pike stocking. The recommended escoid was Kentucky strain muskie which is more adapted to southern latitudes than other genetic type.

[Al Agnew]

I don't have my Fishes of Missouri book with me right now so I don't know what the text says, but one report from one very anomalous site (nowhere else in the Ozarks) probably means fish that were not native. I suspect that any pike in the upper Meramec were escapees from that hatchery at some point (is that the Indian Trails hatchery on Water Creek at the upper end of the Meramec?) And having fished the upper Meramec quite a bit in recent years and knowing guys who have fished it a lot more than I have, nobody has caught a pike out of it in many years. So I'll stick by my statement that pike are only native to a few far north Missouri streams, and in those streams they are rare.

By the way, I couldn't get your link to open...would like to see it.

Edit...okay, I got the page to open finally. Interesting the number of watersheds where pike have been reported. However, even in the detailed report, there was no mention of rarity, or of exactly when those reports from southern Missouri happened or how commonly the pike have been reported. I remember one pike that was caught in Wappapello Lake about 25 years ago. That is the only report of a pike caught in the Ozarks that I can remember personally.

Now you've got me interested...I may try to get hold of some of the biologists to see if I can get a better idea of how common reports of northern pike have been in the Ozarks.

[ozark trout fisher]

I read in some book about fishing Missouri several years ago that there was a small breeding population of Northerns in the Mississippi right around the Northern border of Missouri. I have no idea if there is any truth to that, but I thought it was kind of an interesting note. Here at Lake Sherwood there was a stocking of Northerns a long time ago in a fairly deep 100 acre lake, and rumor has it that they were caught for about 5-10 years after the stocking. I have it on pretty good authority that the stocking occurred, but the stories of them being caught years after are just stories-they may or may not actually be true.

It seems extremely unlikely to me that Northerns are native to a stream like the Meramec, or anywhere else in Missouri far south of the Iowa line. I think you may be getting them confused with pickeral, which are basically a smaller version of Northern Pike that can handle warmer water temperatures. It's a common mistake, and before I knew any better, I once saw a pickeral swimming around in the upper Current while I was trout fishing and thought it was a small Northern. I said so to another fisherman later on in the day and learned my mistake.

[jdmidwest]

Both of my Fishes of Missouri by Pflieger, a first edition in 75 and the latest paperback version, state we are in the southern range for Northern Pike with the entire area north of the Missouri River and spot areas on Stockton, Wappappello, Little Black, Piney, and Meramec Rivers. I remember the one from Lake Wappappello, it was caught in a slough just south of the 67 bridge in the late 70's. There were pics in both Pennington's Bait shop and the other one that used to sit by the bridge.

Many were stocked in the mid 60's in several lakes to control the gizzard shad populations. Indian Trail Hatchery near Salem was stocked and a flood may have led to an accidental stocking of the upper Meramec River. Looks like the record was caught out of Stockton Lake in 75, 18lbs 9oz.

Most of what we have in streams are chain and grass pickerel. Cold water southern MO streams hold the best pike. Years ago, the creek that runs thru the farm used to have several on it, but I have not seen any since I was a kid. One even made it up a branch one spring and resided in a pool of water under our cattle guard. I remember catching him several times before the next rise took him away.