"open Fields" Program Cut

[Tim Smith]

First of all, anyone should know there is no way Obama is a Muslim because of his stance on homosexuals, Devout Muslims would never tolerate that.

But calling big business racist is as Eric says "A broad brush stroke". That's about as ridiculous as me saying that all occupy Wall Streeters are anti-sematic.

Glad you aren't shy about your christianity though, we need more of that around here.

I'm glad your passionate about conservation too, So am I

Big business isn't racist, Mitch. That's not the point. The point is the right is promoting that and a bunch of other garbage for political advantage and it's long past time to stop cutting them slack for that nonsense. The Republicans New Hampshire legislature just put another birther issue on the table and they deserve the worst of whatever comes their way. Just like it's time to call out this nonsense about being too afraid to invest. Horsewash.

But that's not the point of this thread.

Since we're all so passionate about conservation, what are we going to do when the floor falls out of this thing?

I read blogs where people churn on about how they'll just go huntin' and feeshing when everything goes to hell and they don't have to give a crap what happens outside their back 40 and their local stream. They're living in a fantasy world. There were 1/3 as many people in the country when they shot almost every deer and turkey and elk and fished and polluted most of the streams into oblivion in the middle of the 20th century. The way things are now you might get two years of game in your belly before it's back to zero...if you're lucky.

A great big dose of government got us to back to where we are now. The trend is for that support to go away.

I'm not shilling for the government...but show me how fish stay in the streams and those ecosystems Justin's talking about don't fall apart once you've gutted the thing holding them together.

I'll even spot you one, private sector righties...

About 5 years ago, I introduced a proposal for cost-effective long term leases for small streams to the board of the Illinois Smallmouth Alliance. They didn't like it because they were afraid of mounting costs to fish...and I see their point. But what I saw coming back then is just getting closer and closer and we've still got our hands folded in our laps.

You like what we've got now? Get a great big eye-full Papacitos because it's on the way out.

Mitch I get the feeling you're a good man and you don't let much bother you. I admire that. But a bunch of gutless righties won't even click on this link because they know they'll get their arms pulled off from bringing that "we're too afraid to invest" crap in here.

Fine. They can sit over there and sulk, but however tight their panties get twisted, the same problems are out there and they'd better wake up.

I'm still listening.

Chirp. Chirp. Chirp.

[Justin Spencer]

About 5 years ago, I introduced a proposal for cost-effective long term leases for small streams to the board of the Illinois Smallmouth Alliance. They didn't like it because they were afraid of mounting costs to fish...and I see their point. But what I saw coming back then is just getting closer and closer and we've still got our hands folded in our laps.

You should know better than trying to look ahead and preventing problems BEFORE they happen. Our society only seems to act after the problem is rearing it's ugly head. By then it takes 10 times the money and resources just to get back to where we started. Look at what the CCC and other govt. programs did for our natural resources back before WWII. Put food on the table for millions of families and at the same time replanted forests and improved our national parks. It seems as if this recession is another opportunity for government to quit extending unemployment month after month and instead spend that money putting people to work fixing our infrastructure (which is falling apart). I'm sure there are many areas where govt. funds could be spent putting people to work while at the same time fixing things that have been neglected for years. Unfortunately most people would rather get that check in the mail than make an honest paycheck. Somehow we think we are owed a job that lives up to our qualifications and a certain payscale, and while many people do take any job they can find, too many refuse to go back to work until they find that perfect fit.

I think many businesses figured out that the 10 employees they have left can easily do the work that the 20 previous employees were doing. Now that work is hard to find, those 10 people that still have a job work harder than they used to making the rehiring of the other 10 people unneccesary. This is one reason I think a recovery will take longer waiting on the private sector to create jobs.

[Gilly]

You should know better than trying to look ahead and preventing problems BEFORE they happen. Our society only seems to act after the problem is rearing it's ugly head. By then it takes 10 times the money and resources just to get back to where we started. Look at what the CCC and other govt. programs did for our natural resources back before WWII. Put food on the table for millions of families and at the same time replanted forests and improved our national parks. It seems as if this recession is another opportunity for government to quit extending unemployment month after month and instead spend that money putting people to work fixing our infrastructure (which is falling apart). I'm sure there are many areas where govt. funds could be spent putting people to work while at the same time fixing things that have been neglected for years. Unfortunately most people would rather get that check in the mail than make an honest paycheck. Somehow we think we are owed a job that lives up to our qualifications and a certain payscale, and while many people do take any job they can find, too many refuse to go back to work until they find that perfect fit.

I think many businesses figured out that the 10 employees they have left can easily do the work that the 20 previous employees were doing. Now that work is hard to find, those 10 people that still have a job work harder than they used to making the rehiring of the other 10 people unneccesary. This is one reason I think a recovery will take longer waiting on the private sector to create jobs.

Spot on Justin. I have tenants who I finally had to ask to leave after giving them a list of people who I knew would hire them. They felt they had been paying into the system (she was in her middle twenties, he was early thirties) 'all of their lives' and they were going to 'sit this one out for awhile'. Their job history indicated no special talents that would place any of the possible jobs I presented to them as below their dignity. This after letting them live there 2+ months late on their rent while they 'diligently' searched for work. Sorry for the rant. Lazy people bug the heck out of me.....especially when it's tax dollars they're living on.

I'm in construction. We are seeing a lot of work coming up for bid that addresses infrastructure from VA Hospitals to roads, bridges, and military bases. At this stage in our history I would rather see tax dollars spent on that rather than conservation programs. No need to cut programs, put them on hold and do not expand them. And you are absolutely correct as far as doing more with less employee wise. My guys and I have chosen to work reduced hours, we work harder, look at ways to improve profits, run our equipment with far less idle time, etc. Things are turning around but none of us have wanted to hit the unemployed ranks. Winter is almost upon us so we're heading into a few lean months but 2012 looks better than 2011 turned out to be.

[Tim Smith]

No need to cut programs, put them on hold and do not expand them.

That's all fine, Gilly, but cuts are what's on the table and more cuts are probably coming after those.

[Gilly]

That's all fine, Gilly, but cuts are what's on the table and more cuts are probably coming after those.

Tim, I think you and I are in the same book, probably not the same chapter, for sure not the same page. We are over extended...something has to give. Conservative conservationist that I am I would much rather not invest in lands/economies of other countries. That kind of expenditure has bothered me when it's hard to cover our own bases. But that's another book.......

[Quillback]

We need to end ethanol subsidies, went back to Washington state 2 weeks ago and a lot of the marginal land that was being used for CRP is now being farmed for corn. Farmers are not re-enrolling in CRP programs because they can make money growing corn for ethanol, this is happening now.. before any proposed CRP budget cuts. With gas at $3.50 a gallon, there's no need to subsidize ethanol.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I would rather subsidize ethanol and get a renewable source going than subsidize oil which is a finite resource.

[exiledguide]

I would rather subsidize ethanol and get a renewable source going than subsidize oil which is a finite resource.

No American Serviceman or woman has died fighting over the source of Ethanol and I can't remember any Ethanol spill poluting any river or stream

and the purchase of the the raw materials for Ethanol have not been used to finance terrorist attacks on this country.

[Chief Grey Bear]

No American Serviceman or woman has died fighting over the source of Ethanol and I can't remember any Ethanol spill poluting any river or stream

and the purchase of the the raw materials for Ethanol have not been used to finance terrorist attacks on this country.

Sounds like even more great reasons to subsidize it then, doesn't it???

But I would rather farmers be subed to use switchgrass than corn. Even better for mother earth and all the critters.

[Quillback]

You're also paying more for food as corn prices have shot up due to ethanol. Gas prices are staying above $3/gallon in spite of ethanol.