"open Fields" Program Cut

[FishinCricket]

You sure I can't just put up a privacy fence and ignore the problem, Justin?

[hank franklin]

I'm late to the party and apologize, but have any of you had any direct dealings with EPA? I have, and it is not pretty. Incompetence, stifling and inept bureaucracy, wastefulness to make your stomach turn. Trust me, it's absolutely terrible. Public servants all of whom make $75K plus, most in the $100s. I've looked up their salaries.

I have no problem with Missouri DNR and their enforcement. The federal govt via EPA is absolutely upside down and in my opinion in need of utter destruction. Rebuild it from the ground up. Use Missouri DNR as a model.

Don't even get me started. Trust me people, EPA does not serve you. They are against you and an enemy of the people.

[Guest TLewis74]

I blame the media to an extent for making us protectionists. Our business continues to grow but over the last two years we have made fewer improvements, built less, bought fewer boats than I would have normally done. This was not due to business being down but came directly from listening to how bad things are on the news everyday. It worried me and made me want to hold onto money in case things eventually reached us. It is tough for businesses to want to expand when they are doing fine, for fear that customers will disappear and you'll be stuck with idle equipment and no capital. Between the media and the gridlock in Washington there is not much confidence right now in the economy, but for many of us it comes from what we think might happen, not from what has happened. There is plenty of money to be made out there for many businesses, but I think many companies are holding back because FOX news tells us the sky is falling.

No Justin, I think that the 9% unemployment level when it was promised that it would stay at 8% or below if we just passed a 750 Billion dollar stimulus plan, is the reason people are reserve.

I think that Petroleum costs that exceed $100 dollar a barrel and gas prices anywhere from 3.00 to $ 4.00 a gallon, is why people are reserve.

I think that when gold futures that trade over $1700.00 an ounce, which is at record highs as it is a hedge against the collaspe of currency, is why people are reserve.

When you have the previous Administration spending money like Liberals (when they were supposed to be fiscally prudent)and the current Administration spending money like European Socialists, is why people are reserve.

I think when you have pending Progressive Goverment regulations (some of which certain Republicans support unfortunatly) such as Cap and Trade and Healthcare mandates, is why people are reserve.

When 50 % of American households recieve some form of Goverment entitlements every month and while at the same time, still act pissy towards the Government, is why people are reserve.

When new housing starts are at 2% as opposed to the level at 15 % that was promised if we just passed that 750 billion dollar stimulus, and the previous president and all his "so called stimulus plans" with TARP and the bailouts for example, is why people are reserve.

When we haven't had a budget in over 900 days with this "financial wizzard" in office, is why people are reserve.

When the "new wave" of Conservitive Politicians come to office with a mandate from the majority of the voters last November, and propose a Ballanced Budget amendment but the Progressives immediatly squash it down because they won't be able to support all the "cradle to the grave" folk no more and thus piss off a major voting block, is why people are reserve.

You see Justin, there is good reason people feel as though the sky is falling and it is not because of Fox news, (I know, how horrible to have individuals on a network that don't subscribe to what the vast majority of the other Media subscribes to). It is called Quanifiable economic indicadors that can't be denied. And even though I took a fair and ballanced aprroach to call the situation out for what it is and pointed out blame on both sides, I can't wait to see how the "Liberal Faction" on this site twists this all around.

[Guest TLewis74]

The Speaker of the House has been very clear about this. The "Job Creators" are on strike. Buisnesses are flush with cash that they won't spend because they're "uncertain". Funny how certain they were back in the 90s when taxes were even higher than they are now.

So sure...bury conservation...and the auto industry, and the banking industry and everything else until you get a paler shade of candidate in office but don't expect anyone to believe that economic growth has anything to do with eliminating conservation set asides.

Don't even get me started with you. I don't know what school of "economics" you went to, but I have a feeling there were a bunch of Karl Marx, Frederick Engles, and Lenin posters plasterd all over the place.

Wheather you beleive it or not, business is not the employer service you think that it is and it's ONLY goal is to make a Profit and carry out the dircetion set forth by shareholders and management PERIOD, plain and simple.

I don't know about you, but I have never recieved a job from a poor person, and with all these mandates on business, it's a wonder that individuals have not taken all THEIR jobs and ex-pat themselves, just to get away from Progressives such as yourself.

Joseph Mccarthy or Ronald Reagan would have a field day with you.

[Guest TLewis74]

During fiscal year 2010, the federal government spent $3.46 trillion.

Conservation programs are found in the Agriculture, Interior, and EPA departments.

The TOTAL expenditures of those three departments are as follows:

Agriculture--$28 billion.

Interior--$12 billion.

EPA--$10 billion.

So...do the math. The total budget of those three departments equals somewhere around 1.5% of federal spending. That's the total budget. Not the budget for conservation and environmental programs. Agriculture includes the entire National Forest System, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Reclamation (a lot of big dams), as well as conservation programs like the one in the original post and CRP, and of course it also includes all farm subsidies. Interior includes all the National Parks, Monuments, Wildlife Refuges, etc. You know what the EPA includes.

So say you're looking for ways to cut federal spending. Say you drastically cut the budgets of these three departments by a third. Congratulations, you've just cut the federal budget by one half of one percent. Wow. But what do you think cutting these three departments by a third will do to all their programs? Disaster.

Don't kid yourself. The politicians don't have the guts to admit it, but they know you can't balance the budget by this kind of nibbling around the edges. All you do is wreck a lot of stuff without making a dent in the real problem. This kind of cutting isn't about balancing the budget, it's about dumping programs some politicians don't like under the guise of LOOKING like they're doing something.

That whacking you refer to is called entitlements. We as a Nation have to decide what LIMITED entitlements we are going to grant and which ones have to go by the wayside.

Also, when people are pondering what programs to whack or reform, we all have to ask ourselves who is going to be said reciepeant of these programs and who is not going to be elegeble. Abuse of the system is rampant and the clock is ticking, FAST.

But with whacking, comes pissing off a certain group of voters, and with the primary goal of most Politicians being re-elected and not doing what is correct for the country, I don't see that one coming around anytime soon.

[Justin Spencer]

But with whacking, comes pissing off a certain group of voters, and with the primary goal of most Politicians being re-elected and not doing what is correct for the country, I don't see that one coming around anytime soon.

Bingo, I agree with this and unless politicians cut their own salaries and we put term limits on them they will continue making it a career and not a public service position.

Congress and Obama are both to blame, but you can't put it all on a president when congress won't pass anything besides keeping "In Tebow We Trust" as our motto, I don't really agree with the tea baggers or the occupy movement, but at least they are trying to do something to draw attention to the problems, they are the only Americans actually trying to do something, while the rest of us sit here and complain. Had this recession hit me hard I don't know what my attitude would be, but it seems that the worse the economy is, the more people need a cheap vacation camping. Lucky for me I guess.

The only thing I like is keeping gas high, at least it might eventually help the environment, hope it doesn't go higher though.

[eric1978]

Will somebody kill this thing before I blow a gasket?

[Outside Bend]

I'm late to the party and apologize, but have any of you had any direct dealings with EPA? I have, and it is not pretty. Incompetence, stifling and inept bureaucracy, wastefulness to make your stomach turn. Trust me, it's absolutely terrible. Public servants all of whom make $75K plus, most in the $100s. I've looked up their salaries.

I have no problem with Missouri DNR and their enforcement. The federal govt via EPA is absolutely upside down and in my opinion in need of utter destruction. Rebuild it from the ground up. Use Missouri DNR as a model.

Don't even get me started. Trust me people, EPA does not serve you. They are against you and an enemy of the people.

A lot of those public servants have advanced degrees and 15-20 years of experience in their field, which isn't any cakewalk. Regardless of whether you're in the public or private sector, you have to pay competitively in order to attract talent. And to put it in perspective, private consultants with the same qualifications and experience as EPA regulators routinely make 2 and 3 times that amount.

There are some lazy and inept government employees, just as there are lazy and inept employees in any business. But in my experience most of the folks working government jobs like EPA aren't there to sit on their arses and make boatloads of money- they see it as the best route to really effect change in their fields, either through policy, research, or enforcement. They have a lot of the same motivations as our military servicemen (want to give something back to country), and no one ever questions the motives of a high school kid with a 2.2 GPA who wants to go into the Marines.

I respect your opinion Hank, and I'm sorry you've had bad outcomes working with EPA, there's certainly some turds in that punchbowl. But for all its faults,the current political climate means there's zero chance of seeing a retooled EPA with anything like the regulatory authority it currently has. If it's between a flawed EPA and no EPA, I'll take the former.

[Justin Spencer]

If it's between a flawed EPA and no EPA, I'll take the former.

I think even Rick Perry agrees with that.

[FishinCricket]

Will somebody kill this thing before I blow a gasket?

:stifles_a_giggle: