The Perfect Whip Finish, Advice Please?

[esox niger]

Hello all, I recently got an order with a bunch of back stabbers which i don't usually tie, and they are on gamakatsu sl45 size 8! so small. This fly gives me a little trouble with the head. the technique i had thought was "correct" is less than satisfactory...I've always manualy whip finished but because of the 210 denier and my rough skinned fingers the thread gets all mussed up, so i've been using a whip finish tool.

the method i have been using is to wrap to the back of the head and start the whipfinish wraps at the back and wrap forward....with this fly the eye gets crowded easy and i have a habit of using my fingernails combined with thread tension to force the head of the fly back. Im getting some thread slippage and mussy pile ups when i do this.

Does anyone have the perfect whipfinish technique down pat. any video recomendations or writen explanations.

I suppose i should start with the zimmerman backstabber demo...

...but if there is a master fly tyer around I'd love to get the low down. for now im just going to start at the back and wrap forward, or even in place a couple turns keepin everything towards the back of the head, and finish with ample cement, the last one i did like that turned out well. Just concerned about the whip finish comin undone with that techniqe.

while were at it, I've never realy done much cementing but I'd like to produce the best prodoct possible...any recomendations for cement. brands..., should it be thin and added multiple times...that sort of thing.

Thanks in advance.

-Chris

[fishinwrench]

Chris, I always "pile" my whip finish turns one atop the other (4-5 turns). Seems that if I let it walk across the head the loops slide and loosen. I do the deed directly behind the eye loop so it is locked in a trough and can't "walk loose".

I only use cement on flys with big thread heads (clousers, decievers, ect) and Sally Hansen hard as nails is as good as anything else for my purposes, it's thin enough to soak in and builds up nice and clear.

[esox niger]

Thank you for that...

[Wayne SW/MO]

Chris, I always "pile" my whip finish turns one atop the other (4-5 turns). Seems that if I let it walk across the head the loops slide and loosen. I do the deed directly behind the eye loop so it is locked in a trough and can't "walk loose".

I only use cement on flys with big thread heads (clousers, decievers, ect) and Sally Hansen hard as nails is as good as anything else for my purposes, it's thin enough to soak in and builds up nice and clear.

Same here.

[esox niger]

I've got some new cement from the fly shop...almost got the hard as nails..But for the time being I'm back to the trusty superglue, which has always done me well, soaks in and dries fast and hard. Apreciate the feed back guys.

[Jason R.]

One thing I always messed up on when I first began tying was using too many wraps. I mean at all points in the fly. It seems logical when you start out to use 7-10 wraps on everything to make sure everything stays put but 2-3 wraps will usually do the trick. This is especially important on the head- too many wraps equals a big messy head that makes the fly look bad and often it will unravel. I also hardly ever use cement on small flies and I stack my turns on the whip finish.

[JCWolfe]

I put a drop of glue on before I whip finish and after. Maybe it's overkill but some of those commercial tied flies I've bought fall apart to quick. I want mine to last longer.

[Arofishing]

As others have said, wrap it right on top of the thread you just laid down (or close to it).

[Gavin]

Thread choice and thread twist can make a big difference. If your usuing a flat floss like thread (Wapsi 210 denier ?) you are going to have to manage thread twist. It will twist in the direction that you wrap, so sometimes you have to untwist it if you want your head wraps to lay flat, or twist it more if you want to add bulk. It doesnt seem to matter that much with round threads (Unithread). Have fun.

[esox niger]

Chris, I always "pile" my whip finish turns one atop the other (4-5 turns). Seems that if I let it walk across the head the loops slide and loosen. I do the deed directly behind the eye loop so it is locked in a trough and can't "walk loose".

I only use cement on flys with big thread heads (clousers, decievers, ect) and Sally Hansen hard as nails is as good as anything else for my purposes, it's thin enough to soak in and builds up nice and clear.

Got the Sally Hanson hard as nails Clear and xtreme wear in black...all set now. it does smell fierce though, hope that doesn't linger.

Appreciate all the feed back...all good advice...I will let you know what i think of it as soon as i hit the bench again. sure it will be nice..clear and strong