Need Help On Gigging Issue...

[Mitch f]

I'll help in any way I can. I know where I can get some pictures from some buddys.

[bryantsmallie28]

I think the problem is twofold, one of course is enforcement and second the department doesn't want to eliminate a sport.

My solution Is to limit the lumens and what produces them. It wouldn't be hard for them to enforce the lights and without modern stadium lights they wouldn't see the majority of smallies.

I'm not sure i agree. Wouldn't you think the better they can see, the better they can identify.

[Canoeranger]

I'd have to agree with Little Red Fisherman. I'm sure it was nothing more than a mistake in fish identification. I grew up on Current River and to this day I still consider it one of the better gigging rivers in Missouri. It is my personal belief that too many people tend to jump to conclusions and don’t take the time to consider all the facts. In all my years that I have gigged, from my younger teens till now (I’m 35 so that’s been a few years), I have never mistaken a fish that I gigged. It's easier not to gig at anything, than to chance gigging a sport fish and get fined for it. Numerous times I have had encounters with Conservation agents that run their boats in the dark and sneak up from behind you while gigging. The noise of the generator covers the sound of their boat. After speaking with some of the different agents, I have concluded that many giggers are being more responsible than they used to be, due to the increasing contacts on the water from the conservation agents, and the steep fines for illegally gigging game fish and possessing game fish. I know of other giggers who have mistaken fish they'd gigged. They usually try to rake it off the gig and get it back in the water as soon as possible. I know they felt bad about it because they'd make reference to it the rest of the evening. In the presence of other experienced giggers it’s almost shameful to gig a game fish. I guess what I’m trying to say is that too many times people like to complain because they have nothing better to do. If you feel that strongly about the topic of gigging then it is your responsibility to go out and spend some time on the water with Missouri giggers and see for yourself what is really going on. I bet you'll find that over 90% of the folks you go gigging with are also conservation minded as well. They live on and around those same rivers and enjoy catching the same game fish you do.

[Al Agnew]

I think the problem is twofold, one of course is enforcement and second the department doesn't want to eliminate a sport.

My solution Is to limit the lumens and what produces them. It wouldn't be hard for them to enforce the lights and without modern stadium lights they wouldn't see the majority of smallies.

I agree, Wayne...MDC will not eliminate gigging. They'd face a firestorm from the local giggers if they did, the legislature would stick their noses into it like they tried to do with hand fishing, and there would be a horrific fight. MDC ain't gonna open themselves up to that. And I too am uncomfortable with the idea of outlawing gigging at this point, because it really does make the many law abiding giggers suffer for the actions of the (supposedly) few outlaws. And that's why I'm so discouraged about this whole thing. A sport done under cover of darkness, sometimes miles from the nearest public access, is very difficult to police.

However, where these fish were gigged, assuming they were gigged in the same pool where I caught them, is not only just a half mile from a boat ramp, but there is a really nice trail atop the bluff over the pool. These guys could have been caught in the act, if the agent just considered this a high priority. But the other problem with gigging is that the season takes place right through all the hunting seasons, and you know the agents are going to be busy with hunting related activities and not wanting to go out long after dark and police this.

On the other hand, Zipstick's favorite winter hole the last few years is just downstream from a group of cabins which always has one or two boats with gigging rails on them tied up to the bank during gigging season, but it's a few miles from the nearest public access. Last year he saw several gigged bass in the hole, and this year the hole was apparently cleaned out, because he hasn't caught hardly any fish out of it all winter. What are the odds that somebody from those cabins is gigging those fish...and what are the odds that they'd ever be caught?

[Al Agnew]

I'd have to agree with Little Red Fisherman. I'm sure it was nothing more than a mistake in fish identification. I grew up on Current River and to this day I still consider it one of the better gigging rivers in Missouri. It is my personal belief that too many people tend to jump to conclusions and don’t take the time to consider all the facts. In all my years that I have gigged, from my younger teens till now (I’m 35 so that’s been a few years), I have never mistaken a fish that I gigged. It's easier not to gig at anything, than to chance gigging a sport fish and get fined for it. Numerous times I have had encounters with Conservation agents that run their boats in the dark and sneak up from behind you while gigging. The noise of the generator covers the sound of their boat. After speaking with some of the different agents, I have concluded that many giggers are being more responsible than they used to be, due to the increasing contacts on the water from the conservation agents, and the steep fines for illegally gigging game fish and possessing game fish. I know of other giggers who have mistaken fish they'd gigged. They usually try to rake it off the gig and get it back in the water as soon as possible. I know they felt bad about it because they'd make reference to it the rest of the evening. In the presence of other experienced giggers it’s almost shameful to gig a game fish. I guess what I’m trying to say is that too many times people like to complain because they have nothing better to do. If you feel that strongly about the topic of gigging then it is your responsibility to go out and spend some time on the water with Missouri giggers and see for yourself what is really going on. I bet you'll find that over 90% of the folks you go gigging with are also conservation minded as well. They live on and around those same rivers and enjoy catching the same game fish you do.

Sorry, canoeranger, but no way is all this misidentification. You don't realize how much of this crap we see on the Meramec. Far, far too much of it to chalk it up to misidentification. In many years, a significant percentage of the larger smallmouths we catch on the Meramec in the winter have gig marks. I'm talking 20% at least of the smallies over 16 inches. If 20% or more of the fish we catch had been the targets of giggers and survived, how many fish do you think were killed by them? I do believe most giggers won't purposely take game fish, and that's what makes this such a knotty problem, because only a few are the bad apples, but those few have a HUGE impact on the resource, and are tough to police. You may be right about Current River--I don't fish it much, but I've never seen a gig-scarred smallmouth on the Current. But there seem to be some serious bad apples on the Meramec. I don't know whether it's a different culture or some lax enforcement, but all of us who fish the Meramec in the winter know there's a major problem.

And trust me, I have lots of stuff better to do than complain.

[Canoeranger]

Al, I hate to hear that, I can only speak for myself and those giggers I know. Like you I have seen over the years several fish that had old gig marks in them that had healed over time, but nothing like what you speak of. I guess we have the advantage of having both National Park Service and MDC Agents patrolling the waters and banks. I do believe your right though when you say that only a few bad apples really spoil it for the rest of us. Sounds like they need a few more agents working in that area.

Hope things improve in the near future.

[Dan Kreher]

I contributed quite a bit to an article Kathy Etling did quite awhile back, I think it was printed in the STL Globe and also got CC'ed in Missouri Fish & Game.

She went after the issue with guns ablazing....but got nowhere.

If you have her contact info, rattle her cage again. She's pretty fond of Mo.Smallmouth and has quite a list of verified unlawful gigging incidents.

I reached out to Kathy Etling today and she is digging up that article and is sending to me. I might have hard copy of it around here somewhere. She isn't doing any writing for STL PD currently but is still writing for other outdoor publications. We'll see if we can get something going on her end on this again. Seems that evidence of illegal gigging activity is building.

[Mitch f]

One good place to start is getting all gigging banned in the SMA areas. It would be a good way to eliminate the real estate the MDC or whoever would have to police. If someone gigged in the SMA area he would be taking a huge risk.

[Dan Kreher]

Al, I will send you a gigged 14 incher on Meramec just about Hwy 19 Bridge near Steelville. This one didn't make it. Saw another dead smallie in hole that I was unable to snag to take photo. From trip back in mid-January.

[Dan Kreher]

One good place to start is getting all gigging banned in the SMA areas. It would be a good way to eliminate the real estate the MDC or whoever would have to police. If someone gigged in the SMA area he would be taking a huge risk.

I believe that gigging is banned in the various Blue Ribbon Trout Management Areas. Some of them wouldn't float a boat but others are giggable stretches.