Drought?

[Outside Bend]

If you take a look at these figures for both global and Mauna Loa CO2 data you don't see the smooth upward swing that many try to point out as proof positive. I see an erratic lift with some decreases that need to be explained if man is the cause. If there is any consistency it is that man's output doesn't waver that much from year to year.

To me it seems like a pretty smooth upward swing. Yes there's seasonal variation, yes there's anomalies which throws some bumps in the graph- but that's science, and the general trend toward higher CO2 concentrations looks pretty clear. You even have two separate entities collecting the data and receiving very similar results- indicating the results are pretty precise. Not to mention all the other ways we've been measuring atmospheric CO2 concentrations...

[Guest]

CO2 also acidifies our oceans. Which will lead to the eventual demise of coral reefs among other things.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I see I failed to include the link.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/global.html

If you look at the yearly data you see spikes and if you look at this one, which claims to go back 800K, you see big spikes.

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/history.html

So while I have never said the globe isn't getting warmer, or that mankind has never had an impact, it does appear from these figures from the scientific community that there have been other periods of large increases that we know weren't a result of man. All from volcanic action?

Even if you buy the whole idea of man and man alone as the villain, we're still getting screwed because in spite of pouring more money than we have into halting the trend, and little into surviving the change, we have gotten know where.

We ignore real opportunities to make some difference while we take some slow boat path that will never catch up and make a difference, but will satisfy political obligations or pad some pockets. The electric car in 2012 is an example of the ridiculous attempts to make a change.

YOU'RE WRONG A-HOLE.

Run out of cut and paste?

[Tim Smith]

I see I failed to include the link.

http://www.esrl.noaa...nds/global.html

If you look at the yearly data you see spikes and if you look at this one, which claims to go back 800K, you see big spikes.

http://www.esrl.noaa...ds/history.html

So while I have never said the globe isn't getting warmer, or that mankind has never had an impact, it does appear from these figures from the scientific community that there have been other periods of large increases that we know weren't a result of man. All from volcanic action?

Even if you buy the whole idea of man and man alone as the villain, we're still getting screwed because in spite of pouring more money than we have into halting the trend, and little into surviving the change, we have gotten know where.

We ignore real opportunities to make some difference while we take some slow boat path that will never catch up and make a difference, but will satisfy political obligations or pad some pockets. The electric car in 2012 is an example of the ridiculous attempts to make a change.

Run out of cut and paste?

Wayne, it's hard to understand what you're objecting to in the data.

The variability in those graphs is minor stuff compared to the tail at the end. The peaks you speak of are half the size of the one we're in now.

I think it's clear to anyone who's paying attention that plenty of other things are affecting climate. But during THIS time, under THESE conditions, the thing that has a disproportionate influence compared to the past is CO2. Our carbon emissions are the source of that spike.

SB, beyond ice pack data, we have ice out data, tree ring data, satellite data, glacial data and on and on and on that all fit into a clear pattern.

We're looking at something over 500 million in fire damages in Colorado this summer. Nationwide, the price tag for the drought will run into the billions, and if it drags on into next year things will start to get really serious. The world isn't going to end, but we're starting to pay the price. I've had this experience already, watching the reef unravel in Belize. There will be more of this ahead.

It would be fine to go home and talk about toilet training and forget about all this, but these issues will come back again and again and again over the years. Those kids in diapers today will pay the price for climate change tomorrow.

We're a democracy. We have a direct influence over the government and policy they adopt. Our views determine the paths the major parties take, not the other way around. We are not helpless.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Tim I look at things such as this stat.

chg unc.

2003 2.20 0.16

2004 1.58 0.06

2005 2.41 0.11

That seems to be a big change and it apparently happened without mans intervention. What happened in '92 or 99', why the big drop in those two years?

I haven't seen anything yet to convince me we aren't putting all of our eggs in the proverbial basket and it's the wrong one.

We have a plan to replace carbon burning vehicles with one that runs on carbon burning electricity, we have a self proclaimed prophet flying around in a big jet telling us we need to stop burning carbon producing fuel. Willie Nelson travels all over and doesn't need a big jet and in fact burns vegetable oil, but I'm suppose to listen the guy who wants me to do as he says, not as he does. It's all about money spent in all the wrong places.

[jdmidwest]

Sunspots, the answer to everything that affects our planet.

[Mitch f]

Sorry, I lost my head.

This might have been a better response

[Tim Smith]

Tim I look at things such as this stat.

chg unc.

2003 2.20 0.16

2004 1.58 0.06

2005 2.41 0.11

That seems to be a big change and it apparently happened without mans intervention. What happened in '92 or 99', why the big drop in those two years?

Wayne, there's no drop in that data, what are you talking about? Each of those years represents the amount of GROWTH in CO2 in the atmosphere over that year.

That graph is as straighforward as anything gets in nature.

Click on the link that builds the graph using animation from year to year. The carbon is rising as regularly as you're breathing right now.

What does that have to do with Al Gore???

[ness]

This might have been a better response

An oldie, but goodie right there

[Wayne SW/MO]

I spent a great deal of my working life troubleshooting electrical problems and one of the standards was consistency in the problem. If it wasn't there then it needed to be identified and its relationship to the problem resolved. So..................???????????????

What happened in '92 or 99', why the big drop in those two years?