Crawdad Ban Petition In St Louis

[Daryk Campbell Sr]

Hi all,

I want to let you know that there is a petition to allow the sale of live crawdads available at Paul's Bait and Tackle in St Louis. I stopped in there yesterday to look around and get a couple of items. I was talking to one of the owners and he was explaining the reasoning for the petition and I really feel more needs to be explained as to why this ban was put in place. I am no biologist, nor have I done full studies, but the ban has been suspended, so just for that reason alone, I believe that it was a knee jerk reaction to ban the sale/use.

I am a small business owner myself, and I feel maybe this ban may be an attempt from a large corp to try to slow down the need to go to the local shops. Maybe I am wrong, but as was debated a few months ago, there are other things that can be threatening the other craw fish.

One interesting point that was brought up in conversation with the owner was that you can purchase live crawfish and have them shipped to your doorstep. I am no biologist and I would not be able to tell you what crawfish would possibly pose a threat and which ones would not. If you get a bad shipment, you have the local live bait and tackle dealers who deal in the sales on a daily basis who would be better qualified to identify the wrong ones. BTW, I understand the ban also addresses the transportation of crawfish from one location to another.

Just a thought and wanted to let those who oppose the ban have a chance to voice thier opinion also.

For those for the ban, you can go into the shop also, I'm sure they will be happy to talk to you as well.

[Gavin]

The reason for the ban is that bait sales are leading to the introduction of non-native crawfish...and it makes sense. They can complain all the want but MDC isnt going to change its position on this. It will still be legal to sell live crawfish for human consumption.

[Stoneroller]

I think the numbers on the MDC's survey of bait shops were telling. I can't recall exactly what the data was, but I do remember that crayfish sales were extremely low for every bait shop surveyed, something like less than 1% of their total sales. So a ban, which is done to maintain or improve the integrity of our wildlife is definately not putting anyone out of business. The introduction of invasive species which could crash the ecosystem on the other hand will.

MDC wouldn't know a knee jerk reaction if they were hit with a reflex hammer.

[Daryk Campbell Sr]

I think the numbers on the MDC's survey of bait shops were telling. I can't recall exactly what the data was, but I do remember that crayfish sales were extremely low for every bait shop surveyed, something like less than 1% of their total sales. So a ban, which is done to maintain or improve the integrity of our wildlife is definately not putting anyone out of business. The introduction of invasive species which could crash the ecosystem on the other hand will.

MDC wouldn't know a knee jerk reaction if they were hit with a reflex hammer.

I read that data on the sales, and I asked the gentleman about that, he explained to me, that of all of the certified dealers, MDC only surveyed approx 15%, and of the ones who answered, he believes they probably sandbagged the amount they claimed to have sold. The reason they may have sandbagged is that they may not have wanted to give away their trade secrets.

Anyhow, I am not trying to start another debate, that was not the reason of my initial post. ( I guess I should have kept my ideas out of it, hind sight is always 20/20) I just wanted to inform everyone that there is a petition available for those interested.

[Gavin]

Sounds like sour grapes from a dying tackle shop owner to me. Paul's has looked like it's on its last legs for the last couple of years. Bait sales are probably a significant part of their income since they obviously cant afford to stock a decent inventory anymore. What a shame.

[Tim Smith]

Hi all,

I want to let you know that there is a petition to allow the sale of live crawdads available at Paul's Bait and Tackle in St Louis. I stopped in there yesterday to look around and get a couple of items. I was talking to one of the owners and he was explaining the reasoning for the petition and I really feel more needs to be explained as to why this ban was put in place. I am no biologist, nor have I done full studies, but the ban has been suspended, so just for that reason alone, I believe that it was a knee jerk reaction to ban the sale/use.

I am a small business owner myself, and I feel maybe this ban may be an attempt from a large corp to try to slow down the need to go to the local shops. Maybe I am wrong, but as was debated a few months ago, there are other things that can be threatening the other craw fish.

One interesting point that was brought up in conversation with the owner was that you can purchase live crawfish and have them shipped to your doorstep. I am no biologist and I would not be able to tell you what crawfish would possibly pose a threat and which ones would not. If you get a bad shipment, you have the local live bait and tackle dealers who deal in the sales on a daily basis who would be better qualified to identify the wrong ones. BTW, I understand the ban also addresses the transportation of crawfish from one location to another.

Just a thought and wanted to let those who oppose the ban have a chance to voice thier opinion also.

For those for the ban, you can go into the shop also, I'm sure they will be happy to talk to you as well.

First of all the motivation to ban crayfish sales comes entirely from the need to stop invasive crayfish. There are no large corporations trafficking in live crayfish in a way that should compete with baitshops.Google up Chris Taylor and you'll find the nation's leading crayfish expert and the leading initiator of this effort nation-wide. Dr. Taylor has spent just as much time trying to prevent the import of Australian yabbies (i.e. Cherax destructor) as he has trying to prevent bait shops from shuffling crayfish.

The crayfish you can get shipped to your door are food grade items, usually Procambarus clarkii or Procambarus acutus (red swamp and White River crayfish). Those sales are regulated by the normal food agencies. The ecological effects of those crayfish species are well known and those species occur all over the Midwest. Moreover, they're shipped out at a size appropriate for eating, not for use as bait.

The few times I've used crayfish as bait, they were easily gotten by turning over a few rocks or setting out a minnow trap. All the years I've been going to baitshops I've rarely seen crayfish for sale as bait. From the outside, it looks like a pretty hard case to make that banning crayfish sales is going to do anyone any harm.

On the other side of the coin, the research is very clear that invasive crayfish can do heavy damage. Just about any crayfish can end up in a bait shop, and they have a track record of having caused serious problems. Invasive rusty crayfish (Orconectes rusticus) now occur in many streams in densities over 10/m2 as a direct result of introductions from bait buckets. At that density, they wipe out other crayfish species, aquatic plants, other invertebrates and have the potential to negatively affect fish species. Those were spread by bait bucket introductions. They compete with other species for cover and when certain kinds of species get moved into new watersheds they can drive out native species altogether.

This one's pretty clear. If you want to use crayfish for bait, spend an extra 30 minutes catching them yourself in the system you're fishing.

[Riverwhy]

This is a very difficult topic and should be looked at from all sides. I think many forum readers concentrate their interest on clear Ozark streams and understand that crawfish are a top food source from many of our favorite fish species. The thought of an introduction of a non native and potentially destructive crawfish species is scary. I have fished with live crawfish literally hundreds of times and almost always catch my own while fishing the clear streams. In fact, I can not imagine an ozark stream fisherman actually wanting to buy crawfish. However, our fishing sport is much wider than clear Ozark streams. In much of northern Missouri the streams are far too dingy to catch your own crawfish and bass fishermen and catfishermen in particular have always relied on local baitshops for crawfish. Please be careful in supporting restrictive fishing regulations that may not inconvienience your particular style of fishing but may impact thousands of other anglers that fish in different waters and perhaps for different species.

I support the ban on the sale of non native crawfish in Missouri. I oppose the ban on the sale of native crawfish species.

[stlfisher]

Sounds like sour grapes from a dying tackle shop owner to me. Paul's has looked like it's on its last legs for the last couple of years. Bait sales are probably a significant part of their income since they obviously cant afford to stock a decent inventory anymore. What a shame.

I agree. Most of the time the stuff is in a disorganized heap toward the back of the store. Never found much I could use there. There is nothing else close by so under the right management they could make a killing. Seems like they don't care.

[Gavin]

The problem is that some of these bait shops dont know where their crawfish are coming from..and there are no constraints to prevent the buyer from releasing those crayfish in an areas where the are non-native.

Kinda reminds me of a road trip to Michigan where we stopped to buy fireworks in Indiana...I had to buy a $3 Indiana Fireworks Permit and promise to use them only in an Indiana Designated Fireworks Area. What do you think happened...

[Outside Bend]

Hi all,

I want to let you know that there is a petition to allow the sale of live crawdads available at Paul's Bait and Tackle in St Louis. I stopped in there yesterday to look around and get a couple of items. I was talking to one of the owners and he was explaining the reasoning for the petition and I really feel more needs to be explained as to why this ban was put in place. I am no biologist, nor have I done full studies, but the ban has been suspended, so just for that reason alone, I believe that it was a knee jerk reaction to ban the sale/use.

You've got it backwards. The science supporting the ban has been around for 15 years or more, the suspension of the ban was the result of outcry from bait shop owners and the aquaculture industry. The "knee-jerk reaction," wasn't creating the ban, it was lifting it.

I am a small business owner myself, and I feel maybe this ban may be an attempt from a large corp to try to slow down the need to go to the local shops. Maybe I am wrong, but as was debated a few months ago, there are other things that can be threatening the other craw fish.

You think Bass Pro and Cabela's are losing so much money to Paul's Bait and Tackle that they need to coerce MDC into crafting policy that helps push them out of business? Really?

Other things could be affecting crayfish and streams, but we know invasive crayfish are. It's been documented. If we know what the problem is, why shouldn't we remedy it?

One interesting point that was brought up in conversation with the owner was that you can purchase live crawfish and have them shipped to your doorstep. I am no biologist and I would not be able to tell you what crawfish would possibly pose a threat and which ones would not. If you get a bad shipment, you have the local live bait and tackle dealers who deal in the sales on a daily basis who would be better qualified to identify the wrong ones. BTW, I understand the ban also addresses the transportation of crawfish from one location to another.

There are concessions to sell crayfish for food use or biological experiments, and that makes sense. If you're selling something for someone to eat or experiment with, you have to identify what it is you're selling. Bait dealers aren't required to, and haven't shown much interest in learning. MDC tried the carrot, it didn't work.

I love Paul's, my family's been going there for three generations now. I genuinely wish them the best- but I don't think crayfish sales are going to save their business.