Nymphing

[Nick Williams]

Nick, when nymph fishing you can't rely on every cast be a successful drift without adjustment. Mend and fish what you can, then mend again. How much drift you get from each cast will vary according to the flow. Your goal should be to get as much length as you can in the drift free of drag from the line and leader. That's why I shy away from indicators, fly line and leaders cause drag enough buy them selves. I think the best advice concerning indicators is to start without them, the if it appears you can get a better drift with one you can always add something.

I suspect they get their trout from the Neosho national hatchery. the water below Tenkiller would eligible because it should be a warm water fishery, but the dam has changed it and the trout are mitigation for that.

I use to be a good friend of the son of the people who owned the first farm on the west side of the river below the dam. I haven't been there in 40 years, but at that time there were a string of cabins on the first private land, and then their farm ran from there and my neighbor owned one of the cabins. I hunted duck and deer and occasionally fished it for several years. Early on they didn't put many fish in the river and the fishing was mediocre.

I understand, so when anyone is watching their line, they just mend and react to what they see happening before them, correct?

Yeah, the water coming out of Tenkiller is about 46 degrees right now, at least time I checked it was. It may be a little warmer in the last few of heat we've had. It is definitely cold enough for trout. The only problem is when Tenkiller gets down so low they don't let water out and the O2 levels drop.

I guess you could call the river a successful fishery, at least for some people. It's also a hot spot for Striper too.

[DaddyO]

Nick,

dgames and the others gave you some excellent advice for the Lower Illinois and nymph fishing in general. The tactics that were mentioned are important, but having the right nymph for the section of water that you are fishing is equally important. Using the tactics mentioned by the other guys, a GRHE or black Zebra Midge in the slack water above the Kiddie Pool is usually successful. Brightly colored weighted flies that get down fast are good choices in the Kiddie Pool. Buggier looking flies, midges and worms are good from the Kiddie Pool down to the bottom of the island along the back side. You can usually catch fish until you are tired of catching them using those flies and tactics in this section of the river alone.

If you would rather strip a Wooly Bugger, try them in Black, Olive and Brown through out the Lower Illinois for Trout and through out the Upper Illinois for Small Mouth.

I'll be in and out of town for the next couple of weeks. When my schedule slows down, I'll plan a trip to the Lower Illinois and give you a call.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I understand, so when anyone is watching their line, they just mend and react to what they see happening before them, correct?

Pretty much, you'll pick up on what is an interruption from the fly not moving and what is the line/leader dragging the fly. You want to feel like the fly is drifting as if the line wasn't attached. The most obvious take I see is when the leader appears to turn upstream. It doesn't, it has just stopped drifting.

[Nick Williams]

Went out for about 4 hours this morning. I was throwing the nymphs the whole time and this time kept the indicator on. I managed to round up a limit, but I still lost some fish. I definitely find nymphing in slower water VERY boring so I moved on to try to find some current and that is when I started picking up on them. A lot of my takes today were very sudden jerks under water, not subtle at all. And most of the time I could see deep enough to watch the trout so it was a learning experience!

[dgames]

So do you use the stimulator, and any fly you use, as an indicator just because you don't want to have an indicator? Or is it another reason?

Several reasons I like using a dry fly for my indicator. It isn't because I have anything against indicators. I use thingamabobbers if I am in really fast deep water where I need a lot of weight or where I wouldn't be able to see the dry fly. NFOW and spillway creek at Broken Bow are two examples of where I have trouble using the dry dropper.

Anyway, back to the reasons for the dry fly.

First, it is much easier and more pleasant to cast. You don't get nearly the tangles that you get when you have an indicator swinging around.

Second, I am a believer in having as light of line as practical between my indicator and nymph. Heavier line slows the sink rate of the nymph and I believe it leads to more underwater drag. Most indicators, other than the palsa stick ons don't stay in place on 5x or smaller. With my stimulator, I usually use 7x for my dropper and I believe this give me the best drift possible.

Third, I feel like I can detect drag on the dry fly that is sitting up on its hackles better than I can on an indicator sitting low in the water. A drag free drifting dry fly has a certain look to it and just feel like I get locked into a good drift on the dry better than I can with a hard surfaced indicator.

Fourth, if you are fishing to skittish fish, the dry fly indicator gives a much more delicate landing and presentation than plopping down a hard indicator.

Finally, I think the dry fly is a little more sensitive than other indicators. I feel there are some takes that I can see on the dry that I would miss with a conventional indicator.

There are down sides to the dry as indicator. The two most obvious are that there is a limit to how heavy of flies you can use and you have to re-tie knots to adjust depth. On the LI, the flies I would be normally choosing can all be floated by a well hackled size 12 stimulator, so fly weight isn't an issue for me there. Re-tying isn't really that big of an issues there either as I seem to get locked into a dropper length that works and end up keeping it there quite a while. In fact, I would say I spend less time re-tying than most indicator fishermen because of the reduced tangles.

Oh, I forgot one of the other benefits of the dry dropper. I usually catch a few fish on the dry fly which I kind of consider 'bonus' fish. Late last week I fished the White below Bulls Shoals for a couple days and caught several fish on the indicator dry fly, including a gorgeous 16" cutthroat at the narrows.

[Nick Williams]

Several reasons I like using a dry fly for my indicator. It isn't because I have anything against indicators. I use thingamabobbers if I am in really fast deep water where I need a lot of weight or where I wouldn't be able to see the dry fly. NFOW and spillway creek at Broken Bow are two examples of where I have trouble using the dry dropper.

Anyway, back to the reasons for the dry fly.

First, it is much easier and more pleasant to cast. You don't get nearly the tangles that you get when you have an indicator swinging around.

Second, I am a believer in having as light of line as practical between my indicator and nymph. Heavier line slows the sink rate of the nymph and I believe it leads to more underwater drag. Most indicators, other than the palsa stick ons don't stay in place on 5x or smaller. With my stimulator, I usually use 7x for my dropper and I believe this give me the best drift possible.

Third, I feel like I can detect drag on the dry fly that is sitting up on its hackles better than I can on an indicator sitting low in the water. A drag free drifting dry fly has a certain look to it and just feel like I get locked into a good drift on the dry better than I can with a hard surfaced indicator.

Fourth, if you are fishing to skittish fish, the dry fly indicator gives a much more delicate landing and presentation than plopping down a hard indicator.

Finally, I think the dry fly is a little more sensitive than other indicators. I feel there are some takes that I can see on the dry that I would miss with a conventional indicator.

There are down sides to the dry as indicator. The two most obvious are that there is a limit to how heavy of flies you can use and you have to re-tie knots to adjust depth. On the LI, the flies I would be normally choosing can all be floated by a well hackled size 12 stimulator, so fly weight isn't an issue for me there. Re-tying isn't really that big of an issues there either as I seem to get locked into a dropper length that works and end up keeping it there quite a while. In fact, I would say I spend less time re-tying than most indicator fishermen because of the reduced tangles.

Oh, I forgot one of the other benefits of the dry dropper. I usually catch a few fish on the dry fly which I kind of consider 'bonus' fish. Late last week I fished the White below Bulls Shoals for a couple days and caught several fish on the indicator dry fly, including a gorgeous 16" cutthroat at the narrows.

I will definitely have to try that. Is there any reason you choose a Stimulator? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a stonefly imitation? Do we have stoneflies here?

I can definitely echo the part about the delicate presentation. When I was out yesterday I would cringe when the rig made the nice plop going in.

How many nymphs do you run under it? And do you tie onto the bend of the dry or from the eye?

[dgames]

I will definitely have to try that. Is there any reason you choose a Stimulator? Correct me if I'm wrong, but is that a stonefly imitation? Do we have stoneflies here?

I can definitely echo the part about the delicate presentation. When I was out yesterday I would cringe when the rig made the nice plop going in.

How many nymphs do you run under it? And do you tie onto the bend of the dry or from the eye?

Other big bushy dry flies work fine. I use a stimulator most of the time because they float well and seem to be a good attractor dry fly pattern. I have also used smaller flies, like an elk hair caddis when there is a caddis hatch. You just can't hang as much weight off of it in the form of a dropper fly. Midges would fish fine under an EHC. Another advantage of bigger dries is being able to see the fly. If you go too small and the water is choppy, it can be hard to see a smaller fly.

I mainly use one nymph and I tie it to the bend of the hook. I suppose it would work from the eye as well, but I have just never done it that way.

[Wayne SW/MO]

Trout like grasshoppers to. I would try a small foam hopper.