So Now That Health Care Has Been Haggled Over

[Chief Grey Bear]

Waiting to see what happens tomorrow at the Kiss-In.

All this hype over a chicken sandwich....wow!

It will be interesting for sure. Will see if he discriminates or takes the money.

[hoglaw]

Probably should go in the politics forum.

Social media being what it is these days, these things can get very big very quickly. I guess we're fortunate to not have bigger issues in the news?

The bottom line is the company gives money to groups who advocate a view point that says certain people are worth less and should be kept to fewer rights than the rest of us. If a restaurant chain openly gave money (and made public statements about it) to organizations who advocated segregation and abridged rights for black people, then I wouldn't spend my money there. I suppose it's pretty much the same thing here. Everyone has a right to express their viewpoint, but that expression comes with consequences. If I advocated keeping every smallmouth that's legal, I'm sure folks on this board would be upset. Maybe they wouldn't want to fish with me. I don't see how it's any different. I've tried to steer clear of it and I don't really eat there in the first place, but I don't view homosexuality as a choice and I don't view people who have a homosexual orientation as second class citizens. They are entitled to the same thing everyone else here is, and that is my complete and utter indifference what they do in the bedroom. The idea of same sex marriages doesn't bother me. I don't want to watch two dudes make out in public any more than I want to watch the rest of you. I guess it probably grosses me out more, but that doesn't mean I don't think they should be allowed to get married the same as me.

I guess the bottom line is it boils down to whether you think homosexuality is an involuntary characteristic...the same as brown hair or being prone to cancer. Having known enough folks who repressed it throughout their young adult life only to realize later on that what they had always been taught was wrong was who they really were, I have to say from experience that I just don't think it's something someone chooses at some point along the way. I have absolutely zero inclination to be attracted to other men...none. Nada. Zilch. Honestly, the thought puts me off a little. Therefore, it's impossible for me to understand how someone could just say "I think I'll try dudes today."

So, if someone is born a certain way, that certain way doesn't hurt me, children, or anyone else, then I think they should be afforded the same rights and protections as anyone else and I don't think the State should go out of its way to make darn double sure they never get that. And if Chic-Fil-A wants to donate money to causes that vehemently oppose that very same idea, then I don't think that's right. It's not on my agenda and it's not something I've thought much about until right now, but I have friends and clients who are gay and I don't like the idea of someone speaking out against a trait they didn't chose to begin with. Everyone has a right to say what they want. Chic-Fil-A doesn't (as far as I know) descriminate in its hiring practices or who it serves. Everyone is well within the law. The remedy for speech you disagree with is more speech, and all the protesters who have urged others not to go there are doing a good thing as far as I'm concerned. If you think gay people shouldn't get married and should keep it behind closed doors, then I suppose you're doing the right thing by making special trips there too as far as you're concerned.

[Mitch f]

It will be interesting for sure. Will see if he discriminates or takes the money.

What is going to happen tomorrow? Been out of the loop due to a heavy work schedule. That guy that Obama said started my business for me is never around when you need him

[hoglaw]

Oh I agree he has every right to his opinion. And whether I agree or not with anyone's opinion, I will stand with them and their right to express it.

See, that's the thing people are getting all wrong. No one said they couldn't say it (other than the whacko mayor of XXX Massachusetts who said good luck opening a store here...or something like that). This isn't a first amendment issue at all. No one, as far as I know of, has threatened to cite Chic-Fil-A or arrest it or whatever. It's an issue of a company giving money to causes that many people find immoral and as a result those people ask others not to patronize that business. It's the same darn thing as not giving X company your business because they ship jobs overseas and asking others not to do it as well. The people who waited in lines weren't making a stand for "free speech". They were making a visual and monetary response to the folks who urged others not to go there because the CEO or whatever thinks that gay people are just wrong.

[tjulianc]

Probably should go in the politics forum.

Social media being what it is these days, these things can get very big very quickly. I guess we're fortunate to not have bigger issues in the news?

The bottom line is the company gives money to groups who advocate a view point that says certain people are worth less and should be kept to fewer rights than the rest of us. If a restaurant chain openly gave money (and made public statements about it) to organizations who advocated segregation and abridged rights for black people, then I wouldn't spend my money there. I suppose it's pretty much the same thing here. Everyone has a right to express their viewpoint, but that expression comes with consequences. If I advocated keeping every smallmouth that's legal, I'm sure folks on this board would be upset. Maybe they wouldn't want to fish with me. I don't see how it's any different. I've tried to steer clear of it and I don't really eat there in the first place, but I don't view homosexuality as a choice and I don't view people who have a homosexual orientation as second class citizens. They are entitled to the same thing everyone else here is, and that is my complete and utter indifference what they do in the bedroom. The idea of same sex marriages doesn't bother me. I don't want to watch two dudes make out in public any more than I want to watch the rest of you. I guess it probably grosses me out more, but that doesn't mean I don't think they should be allowed to get married the same as me.

I guess the bottom line is it boils down to whether you think homosexuality is an involuntary characteristic...the same as brown hair or being prone to cancer. Having known enough folks who repressed it throughout their young adult life only to realize later on that what they had always been taught was wrong was who they really were, I have to say from experience that I just don't think it's something someone chooses at some point along the way. I have absolutely zero inclination to be attracted to other men...none. Nada. Zilch. Honestly, the thought puts me off a little. Therefore, it's impossible for me to understand how someone could just say "I think I'll try dudes today."

So, if someone is born a certain way, that certain way doesn't hurt me, children, or anyone else, then I think they should be afforded the same rights and protections as anyone else and I don't think the State should go out of its way to make darn double sure they never get that. And if Chic-Fil-A wants to donate money to causes that vehemently oppose that very same idea, then I don't think that's right. It's not on my agenda and it's not something I've thought much about until right now, but I have friends and clients who are gay and I don't like the idea of someone speaking out against a trait they didn't chose to begin with. Everyone has a right to say what they want. Chic-Fil-A doesn't (as far as I know) descriminate in its hiring practices or who it serves. Everyone is well within the law. The remedy for speech you disagree with is more speech, and all the protesters who have urged others not to go there are doing a good thing as far as I'm concerned. If you think gay people shouldn't get married and should keep it behind closed doors, then I suppose you're doing the right thing by making special trips there too as far as you're concerned.

Very well said, and couldn't agree more.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Probably should go in the politics forum.

Social media being what it is these days, these things can get very big very quickly. I guess we're fortunate to not have bigger issues in the news?

The bottom line is the company gives money to groups who advocate a view point that says certain people are worth less and should be kept to fewer rights than the rest of us. If a restaurant chain openly gave money (and made public statements about it) to organizations who advocated segregation and abridged rights for black people, then I wouldn't spend my money there. I suppose it's pretty much the same thing here. Everyone has a right to express their viewpoint, but that expression comes with consequences. If I advocated keeping every smallmouth that's legal, I'm sure folks on this board would be upset. Maybe they wouldn't want to fish with me. I don't see how it's any different. I've tried to steer clear of it and I don't really eat there in the first place, but I don't view homosexuality as a choice and I don't view people who have a homosexual orientation as second class citizens. They are entitled to the same thing everyone else here is, and that is my complete and utter indifference what they do in the bedroom. The idea of same sex marriages doesn't bother me. I don't want to watch two dudes make out in public any more than I want to watch the rest of you. I guess it probably grosses me out more, but that doesn't mean I don't think they should be allowed to get married the same as me.

I guess the bottom line is it boils down to whether you think homosexuality is an involuntary characteristic...the same as brown hair or being prone to cancer. Having known enough folks who repressed it throughout their young adult life only to realize later on that what they had always been taught was wrong was who they really were, I have to say from experience that I just don't think it's something someone chooses at some point along the way. I have absolutely zero inclination to be attracted to other men...none. Nada. Zilch. Honestly, the thought puts me off a little. Therefore, it's impossible for me to understand how someone could just say "I think I'll try dudes today."

So, if someone is born a certain way, that certain way doesn't hurt me, children, or anyone else, then I think they should be afforded the same rights and protections as anyone else and I don't think the State should go out of its way to make darn double sure they never get that. And if Chic-Fil-A wants to donate money to causes that vehemently oppose that very same idea, then I don't think that's right. It's not on my agenda and it's not something I've thought much about until right now, but I have friends and clients who are gay and I don't like the idea of someone speaking out against a trait they didn't chose to begin with. Everyone has a right to say what they want. Chic-Fil-A doesn't (as far as I know) descriminate in its hiring practices or who it serves. Everyone is well within the law. The remedy for speech you disagree with is more speech, and all the protesters who have urged others not to go there are doing a good thing as far as I'm concerned. If you think gay people shouldn't get married and should keep it behind closed doors, then I suppose you're doing the right thing by making special trips there too as far as you're concerned.

Couldn't have been stated it any better.

One thing that I might add is that there are gays and lesbians risking their lives to protect the right for those that dislike them to say so via free speech.

[fishinSWMO]

Good post hoglaw.

[Chief Grey Bear]

See, that's the thing people are getting all wrong. No one said they couldn't say it (other than the whacko mayor of XXX Massachusetts who said good luck opening a store here...or something like that). This isn't a first amendment issue at all. No one, as far as I know of, has threatened to cite Chic-Fil-A or arrest it or whatever. It's an issue of a company giving money to causes that many people find immoral and as a result those people ask others not to patronize that business. It's the same darn thing as not giving X company your business because they ship jobs overseas and asking others not to do it as well. The people who waited in lines weren't making a stand for "free speech". They were making a visual and monetary response to the folks who urged others not to go there because the CEO or whatever thinks that gay people are just wrong.

This is the ironic hypocrisy I was pointing out. The Chicks lost their livelyhood due to free speech and this cat increases his fortune.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Sorry about messing up the postings. darn phones!!

[Chief Grey Bear]

See, that's the thing people are getting all wrong. No one said they couldn't say it (other than the whacko mayor of XXX Massachusetts who said good luck opening a store here...or something like that). This isn't a first amendment issue at all. No one, as far as I know of, has threatened to cite Chic-Fil-A or arrest it or whatever. It's an issue of a company giving money to causes that many people find immoral and as a result those people ask others not to patronize that business. It's the same darn thing as not giving X company your business because they ship jobs overseas and asking others not to do it as well. The people who waited in lines weren't making a stand for "free speech". They were making a visual and monetary response to the folks who urged others not to go there because the CEO or whatever thinks that gay people are just wrong.

Reread it and agree.