When Do You Pick Up The Phone?

[UnCivE]

Today I was fishing my local haunt, and noticed that there were obvious track marks in the river adjacent to some property that's been cleared (by bobcat). I say track marks as opposed to tire marks to make the point that I suspect they've been driving the bobcat in the river and moving gravel around. . . Now, they didn't really change the flow that much, and I doubt they've done any serious damage.. but I'm not a biologist.

So, at what point do you decide to report something like that...? I noticed immediately because I fish there often, and it was obvious to me. To a first timer, or someone who isn't really familiar, I don't know if they'd notice the damage. I'm not the guy who is gonna grab a phone everytime I see a violation, but I don't hesitate to report poaching and serious violations.

[Al Agnew]

It's probably worth a call. I believe you must have a permit in order to remove gravel from a stream bed or gravel bar. You should call the MO DNR (NOT the Conservation Department--not their responsibility).

[fishinwrench]

Are you 100% legal being there in the first place? I ask because you said it was your "local haunt", which could technically be trespassing.

If it isn't a well traveled public stream then you might be causing yourself more problems than you are the dude with the bobcat.

Odds are "Bobcat man" owns the property you stood on and that phone call could mean you'll not be fishing there anymore.

[Chief Grey Bear]

So I shouldn't report a meth lab because I "may" have been trespassing??

[jdmidwest]

So I shouldn't report a meth lab because I "may" have been trespassing??

Probably not, if you are trespassing while making a meth lab.

What you may have witnessed was just a farmer making an access to get water from a stream since his ponds have dried up, making a spot for livestock to water, or just clearing out a spot for access.

You have to get a permit to mine gravel for sale, but not for private use. Unless there is a major disturbance I would not worry much. I doubt if anything would be done about it.

[Justin Spencer]

If you report it they probably will only get a letter from DNR telling them to stop. When we bought our new landing I filled a nasty algae filled "baptismal hole" that had been dug on our gravel bar, and while I wasn't in the river I was using gravel from other parts of the bar to fill the hole. Someone saw me with the tractor on the gravel bar and reported it. About a month later I got a letter with pictures of the gravel pile which was left from the previous owner digging the hole, a follow up call a few weeks later and the issue was put to rest. I would probably report it if it looks like they are doing work in the river, if they just used it to turn around once I might let it go, it's a judgement call.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Probably not, if you are trespassing while making a meth lab.

I knew you wouldn't understand the question.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I was under the impression that if you use it on your own land you can mine gravel from your land. Unless you know more than you have posted you should probably forget it. If the area has been cleared more damage than moving gravel has been done already.

[Al Agnew]

Probably right on the permit thing. And almost certainly right that nothing will be done about it even if it isn't legal, since the DNR is spread so thin they don't even go after the big gravel companies much. But I'm always for citizen action. Enough people complaining, and maybe it lights a fire under the politicians.

[Al Agnew]

I just remembered from my days on the gravel mining work group that JD and Wayne ARE right, no permit necessary for a landowner to dig gravel for his own use. My mistake.

Sometimes it's pretty disturbing how little protection the streams have. At one time, the Corps of Engineers was in charge of all stream and stream bank alterations. To significantly alter the banks or dig around in the bottom of ANY stream, you technically had to get a permit from the Corps. Of course, the Corps has never been much into conservation, so they didn't bother to enforce those requirements, especially on smaller streams. But at least the requirement was there and if somebody REALLY mucked around in a good river, they might take action. But the politicians decided that those were too many regulations, and did away with them. Now, a landowner can pretty much do whatever the heck he wants to the stream running through his property. One of the politicians at the gravel mining committee meetings I served in a few years back couched this in terms of private property rights. When I pointed out that what one person does to his section of stream will adversely affect other landowners downstream, and what about THEIR property rights, he said, "Well, that's what lawsuits are for." Huh. So the downstream landowner has to go through the aggravation and expense of a lawsuit, and meanwhile the stream has already been screwed up.