Copying fly patterns...

[jim murphy]

People taking credit for something others have done or demonstrated, happens all the time. In fact, someone was scorned for pointing it out on this forum earlier this month, but I will not go there, whether it was credable information or not.

I know how Brett feels about his pattern being duplicated by someone else, credit being taken, and sold as a creation of their own. The same thing has happened to me, with the mohair leech dubbing color blends I mixed up / created. This is very UNETHICAL and DISRESPECTFUL, but then these individuals get the undeserved recognition.

The ONLY pattern that is PATTENED is Jim Teeny's Teeny Nymph. Possibly the many variations he has created may fall under this Patten as well. In fact, there was an editorial on this a while back in either American Angler or Fly Rod and Reel magazine.

Copyrighted material, whether written or televised, falls under some different definitions, is available for public use with certain restrictions.

If a pattern is made available to the public, written, demonstrated, or pictured or otherwise, by an individual, then I see no reason why someone cannot tie it and use it. If a tyer modifies the pattern to be easier to tie or more productive for them, why can't they take credit for the modifications of the pattern? But at least, give credit to the originator of the fly, if known.

jim

[loo10]

I am always willing to share my flies or patterns with anyone

if it will help them catch a few fish. And 99% of those who are alongside me on the stream are exactly the same.

I find it interesting that some want to take the "high moral ground"

(supposedly) and act like they have never copied or attempted to copy a fly

someone has shown them or given them.

To those I have one question,

"Do you wish to be kettle or pot?"

[Phil Lilley]

Rich- I think the issue is those who make their living on patterns and shops copying them for profit. I don't think anyone will fault anyone for trying to copy a fly for their own use or even to give away.

[Charley Hart]

Bret Raders' flies are awesome. He moved here from KC and started a fly shop, an online shopping cart, a fly guide business and has done great, as far as I can see. But there seems to have been a rif with his fly design. It's being copied?

He's made mention on his fishing report that his patterns are being copied. I'm not going to address IF they have- they probably have been copied. All great flies are copied by the average fly tyer. Then there is the commerical tyer that takes advantage of an uncopyrighted patterns and someone like Umpqua picks it up and runs with it. That's why alot of new patterns are sold by the designer to Umpqua or other wholesalers before the pattern is pirated. Just ask John Wilson- he sold the rights to "Trout Crack" to Umpqua and now you can find it in their catalog.

I consider Bret to be a friend, although he very seldom guides for us. And again, his flies work on Taney and he should be commended for designing them.

Fly tying itself seems to be such a large hobby how would one know if your fly is something special or just a copy?0 I know I create many flies for the warmwater stuff I do up north, there is probably something out there like the ones I create, but trust me I am the worst at copying. I usually just come up with something close and hope it catches fish. (personal use only I only give away flies)

For personal use we probably have all said "That is what they are hitting on, I could tie up a few of those." Nothing wrong with that. Got a buddy who ties some jigs up and sells them quite nicely at St. James. They are nothing special, any yahoo with a vise could make them, but they sell the crud out of them, my guess is to the people that don't have the time or patience to learn.

Hmmm tough one... I think it stinks but don't know that he can stop it.

[MOBass]

Protecting a lure of any type seems to be a challenge. Recently the Chatter Bait was all the buzz in the bass fishing community. In short order every major bait company had a variant of the bait. When it is that difficult to protect a product it is up to the originator to find a way to set themselves apart. This could be through superior materials, service, performance, or something that makes the customer keep coming back for more.

[Seth]

I have tried tying up some make shift "G-bugs" like Brett ties for my personal use. The reason I did my own was because I have never had a chance to make it down to his shop. Next time I get the chance to go down there, I will drop by his shop and buy a handful of his flies because the ones I tie are nothing like his creations. Every fly I have tied is a copy from something I have seen so I didn't worry about any laws or whatever.

I told him in some emails I sent him that I had good luck on some make shift G-bugs and he appreciated the report.

Brett has given me fishing tips over the email and I met him the last time I was down there and shook hands and he seems to me like a great person and an amazing fishing guide.

I find it kind of pathetic that a fly shop would start copying his exact flies and then even call them the same thing pretty much. Hopefully Brett can get some sort of a patent on those great flies of his because they work so well, others are going to try and steal them and make a profit off of them

[MOBass]

Can someone post a link to his site or tell me where his shop is? I don't "roll my own" yet.

[jdmidwest]

http://www.charteredwaters.com

[OnTheFly]

I looked at the website listed and none of the flies look new or innovative to me…mostly tweaked patterns that have been around for years. The flies appear to be tied using commercially sold hooks and materials that you can pick up from any fly shop or craft shop. A few years ago I “created” what I thought was a new and innovative trico pattern only to find it being commercially sold in a fly shop in Wyoming. Did they steal my pattern? Nope…just two tiers using digging through new tying products and both thought a particular combination of materials might catch fish...but for the record…the shop owner didn’t have any of the flies tied on a 26 xfine mustad hooks.

[loo10]

If I had something so important to my livelihood that

I wanted to patent it, I sure wouldn't print pictures of it on the web first.

Nor would I show them to alot of people before I patented it.

Hasn't anyone heard the saying, "Early bird gets the worm?"

What bothers me about this topic is that people act like they are above all this. Who hasn't copied flies they saw or admired? Who?

I personally showed a pattern to an area fly shop years ago and it was being sold in their store within the month. So let's not act like "Ooooooo...I'm so above this."

If I show a pattern to you or show you a technique to get a special result........ fish it, copy it, and if you can make a buck - go for it. But don't act like you'd NEVER do such a thing. My best patterns have come from sharing with others. I hope maybe some of their best patterns have come from

me.