30 Thousand Dollar Snack!

[Wayne SW/MO]

Round them up and work the birthday circuit.

:lol:

Before anyone gets too excited about whether or not the MDC introduced lion they should read up on the history. Management of them was severely curtailed when the rash of referendums and petition for a vote stopped any hunting with dogs.

[jdmidwest]

Um...if there HAD been a poll of everybody in the state before otter restoration, you wouldn't have found 10% that were against it. Practically everybody was for it.

Black bear weren't restored. They got here on their own. And I refuse to believe that MDC is lying and actually introduced mountain lions.

Fact is, there are always special interests. It is a matter of which special interest happens to be aligned with the more general population. The Conservation Federation is THE most dominant conservation organization in MO. The L.A.D. Foundation actually owns much of the land that isn't owned by MDC and the feds in that area...and probably think they have a right to have a say on what's introduced onto their land, too. Ditto with the Nature Conservancy. And I bet if you took a poll of all Missourians, a majority would be in favor of the elk restoration.

So who are the "special interests"? On the other side, you have the Farm Bureau and some of the landowners in the area, and people who think it was a waste of money, and people who don't like much of anything MDC does. Anybody else?

I don't recall any public comment option on the Otters. Somebody decided to bring some back and boom, population explosion. And nobody would have guessed that reintroducing a species that had been extirpated back into the ecology would do such damage. But, you could look at it another way, all of the fish, crawdads, frogs, and snakes that they consume now would have been there for them only before man overpopulated the land. It was theirs in the first place. But, we greedy people, would like to see good fishing, frogging, crawdad eating, and water snake shooting to return to the levels where they were before the otter came back.

The special interest groups were just the ones in the area of the initial release. What if they take off like wildfire like the otters? The entire state may and probably will have to deal with the Elk. Missouri has changed since they left. More fences, cars, roads, and general population. Bringing them back may bring up more problems down the road that they did not have in the years before man populated It was kind of like the Casino in Cape, someone wanted the Elk, then decided against it, then it was here they come.

The Black Bear and the Mountain Lion, that is a whole different issue. I know that the MDC did not stock them. What burns me is the feeble excuse at each sighting. They are wandering thru, its a chance encounter, there is no established breeding population. Just like the bear, they have come here and are getting established, lets deal with them and manage them like other species. I really don't know what that canned reaction they put out each time is for. Keep people from being scared? Trying to avoid groups of persons assembling to hunt them down?

Why can't they just say "Mountain Lions have come to Missouri and are repopulating."

[jdmidwest]

Round them up and work the birthday circuit.

What can I do with the pig? Kids don't like potbelly pigs do they?

[exiledguide]

Um...if there HAD been a poll of everybody in the state before otter restoration, you wouldn't have found 10% that were against it. Practically everybody was for it.

Black bear weren't restored. They got here on their own. And I refuse to believe that MDC is lying and actually introduced mountain lions.

Fact is, there are always special interests. It is a matter of which special interest happens to be aligned with the more general population. The Conservation Federation is THE most dominant conservation organization in MO. The L.A.D. Foundation actually owns much of the land that isn't owned by MDC and the feds in that area...and probably think they have a right to have a say on what's introduced onto their land, too. Ditto with the Nature Conservancy. And I bet if you took a poll of all Missourians, a majority would be in favor of the elk restoration.

So who are the "special interests"? On the other side, you have the Farm Bureau and some of the landowners in the area, and people who think it was a waste of money, and people who don't like much of anything MDC does. Anybody else?

You said that about otters a couple of years ago at a seminar in Springfield and a number of us disagreed at the time. Anyone would think that the MDC would have realized the possability of overpopulation and the affect they would haveon aquatic animals. When they talked about doing this how many people knew about it most people had no computers and there were not that many sources of information about what the MDC did. Recently on their website they admited things did not work out the way planned. But when I talked to Tim Renken about it in 1999 and he wrote acolum about it after interviewing Devoe Mckiney in Texas county (who knows more about smallmouth than anyone I ever met) the MDC took the position that anyone who called them out was out to get them

[Chief Grey Bear]

What can I do with the pig? Kids don't like potbelly pigs do they?

Love them!

Put that sucker on a leash in the front yard. Get yourself a lawn chair, a cooler of beer and park there with the pig. Put up a sign that says "Petting Zoo $1". Keep a shoe box close by to put all the cash! Now, peep this...if, and this is what you really want to happen, but if those little snot nosed bastards ain't got a dollar, have them get a plug out of dads tackle box as payment. Encourage them to visit often.

[jdmidwest]

Love them!

Put that sucker on a leash in the front yard. Get yourself a lawn chair, a cooler of beer and park there with the pig. Put up a sign that says "Petting Zoo $1". Keep a shoe box close by to put all the cash! Now, peep this...if, and this is what you really want to happen, but if those little snot nosed bastards ain't got a dollar, have them get a plug out of dads tackle box as payment. Encourage them to visit often.

Why don't I just herd them up in the ole stock trailer and bring them over to your side. Sounds like you have it all figured out.

[ness]

I don't recall any public comment option on the Otters. Somebody decided to bring some back and boom, population explosion. And nobody would have guessed that reintroducing a species that had been extirpated back into the ecology would do such damage. But, you could look at it another way, all of the fish, crawdads, frogs, and snakes that they consume now would have been there for them only before man overpopulated the land. It was theirs in the first place. But, we greedy people, would like to see good fishing, frogging, crawdad eating, and water snake shooting to return to the levels where they were before the otter came back.

The special interest groups were just the ones in the area of the initial release. What if they take off like wildfire like the otters? The entire state may and probably will have to deal with the Elk. Missouri has changed since they left. More fences, cars, roads, and general population. Bringing them back may bring up more problems down the road that they did not have in the years before man populated It was kind of like the Casino in Cape, someone wanted the Elk, then decided against it, then it was here they come.

The Black Bear and the Mountain Lion, that is a whole different issue. I know that the MDC did not stock them. What burns me is the feeble excuse at each sighting. They are wandering thru, its a chance encounter, there is no established breeding population. Just like the bear, they have come here and are getting established, lets deal with them and manage them like other species. I really don't know what that canned reaction they put out each time is for. Keep people from being scared? Trying to avoid groups of persons assembling to hunt them down?

Why can't they just say "Mountain Lions have come to Missouri and are repopulating."

I guess we need to go over this material again....

There is no evidence of a breeding population. See the difference from what you said? They're not saying, and they have no incentive to say, there isn't a breeding population. They want to see the evidence before they make the statement. All, or darn near all, of the ones they've examined have been males. Do we need to go over that material again too?

[Outside Bend]

I guess I find it tough to draw comparisons between a solitary, secretive, predatory 30 lb otter and an herbivorous, herding, 300lb elk. The only thing they have in common is that they're both reintroduced, and it's irrational and absurd to think elk populations will explode because otter populations did. Sure the elk introduction could go like the ottter introduction, but it could just as well go like the ruffed grouse reintroduction- they peter out after a while due to poor habitat. Or it could go like the prairie chicken reintroduction- they stock a few, they hang out, and nothing really terrible happens. You're just arbitrarily picking the worst-case scenario.

And otter reintroduction is a great example of why we voted to make MDC an apolitical organization, one which doesn't need to make decisions based on votes and politics. There's a lot of misinformation out there about otters, and about how much they prey on sportfish.

[Wayne SW/MO]

They also reintroduced those darn turkeys.

[ness]

They also reintroduced those darn turkeys.

.....that are eating all the quail