ColdWaterFshr Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Huh, what gave you the impression I was offended? Herpetologist Steve Ceriotti was shown this picture and he said it is definitely not an eastern hognose. He said it is likely a cross-breed of 2 species, a hybrid broad-banded water snake/midland brown/fox snake.
Feathers and Fins Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAA A herpetologist went on record of saying a Fox snake x Water snake? Or did you mean to say a Broad-banded water snake (Nerodia fasciata) x (Nerodia sipedon) please clarify as a Fox Snake is a Egg laying species and the Water Snakes are Live bearing the first two its possible for hybridization the last two it is not possible. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Beaver-Lake-Arkansas-Fishing-Report/745541178798856
ColdWaterFshr Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Here is what he said exactly. It's a hybrid. Cross bred between two sub species. Certain genus can do this and this looks like its a hybrid between a broad banded water snake and something else (possibly midland brown or fox snake). Not uncommon for snakes to do this.
Feathers and Fins Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Plausible for watersnakes but not a watersnake x fox. The majority of hybridization is amongst the same genus ( Nerodia x Nerodia ) and it is not what I would call common by any means. Hybridization between un-related genus ( Nerodia x Pantherophis ) not going to happen in the wild. It has been attempted in captivity but to my knowledge has never produced viable offspring. I understand you're just posting what you were told, but that is a scientific impossibility that is the (Fox-snake x Water snake). So I'm curious where the Fox-snake came in to the story. It is just genetically impossible be like saying you can breed a Dog with a Cat. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Beaver-Lake-Arkansas-Fishing-Report/745541178798856
ColdWaterFshr Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 I will ask him tonight how he got fox-snake-egg layer thing when I see him at our sons' baseball party. I freely admit I don't know squat about snakes, but I know this guy knows his stuff. Sorry if I came across as turning this into my herp is better than your herp! hahaha Just wanted to get to the bottom of this mystery snake picture.
Feathers and Fins Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Na you didn't im just trying to figure it out as well. Ive been dealing with reptiles for over 25 years and this is stumping me. I sent off the picture to a few people I know and am waiting for a replies. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Beaver-Lake-Arkansas-Fishing-Report/745541178798856
blue79 Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 It is just genetically impossible be like saying you can breed a Dog with a Cat. My dog tried to breed with cats,dogs,couch cushions,tire swings,stuffed animals..he wasnt picky.
Feathers and Fins Posted October 4, 2013 Posted October 4, 2013 Is he a Jack Russel?, seen one try to breed a donkey and tractor tire, managed to get the Great Dane, funny as hell seeing him hanging off the back end of it https://www.facebook.com/pages/Beaver-Lake-Arkansas-Fishing-Report/745541178798856
jdmidwest Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 My dog tried to breed with cats,dogs,couch cushions,tire swings,stuffed animals..he wasnt picky. But in order to cross, he would have to succeed. I have not seen any dog swings running around. "Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously." — Hunter S. Thompson
Al Agnew Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 I don't know and don't care who the herpetologist was and what he said. All I know is that, if you look at the pattern on the back and upper sides in the original photo and the pattern on the back and upper sides in the photo of the hognose posted by Podum, they are almost exactly alike, and it's a pattern that I've never seen on any other snake. Look at the two closely. In both, there are narrow, LIGHT-colored bands going across the back, with a large dark spot on the ends of each light band, and the dark areas between the light bands are darkest where they come up against the light band. Those are very distinctive markings. Do they look exactly like the hognoses I've actually seen? Nope. So I guess it's possible that the photo Podum posted is somehow a fake. But that's the ONLY way that the two photos could not be the same species. Those markings are just too much alike, and too far from matching ANY other snake I've seen.
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