Line Question For The Rock

[merc1997 Bo]

Does no one here use Seaguar?

I have personally witnessed a butt-kicking where I was the receiver of such a whoopin' because I was using 8lb flouro and partner used 6lb flouro. In water visibility only 4ft clarity and fishing 15-20ft deep. Must have been the size of the line more than visibility but the smaller line was getting the bites. Could be diameter of line was giving off vibration?

And.......

For crappie fishing I have straightened many crappie jig hooks on 6lb Seaguar Invisx. When I hung up a jig on a tree stump or rock, I had to tighten the drag down all the way (thinking the line would break) and the hook came back straightened. Talk about tough! It's way stronger then 6lb test but it's the size of 6lb test and super limp, low line memory, and I'm catching more fish by switching to Invisx. Really strong line.

your line size and type equates to sink rate. you probably would have caught the same fish if you had taken the time to match your buddy's sink rate. here is an easy example. i was using 14lb. line, a 5/16 weight and an 8 inch worm. i was catching one after the other. my buddy asked what size sinker i had on, and i told him. he was using 20lb though. i kept catching them, and he finally noticed my smaller line, and put on a 3/8 sinker and immediately went to catching them. most of the time, getting the sink rate correct is more important than an exact size of line.

bo

[Champ188]

I have mostly different feelings about sink rate. Of course, I don't fish at night at all while Bo fishes almost exclusively at night.

That said, there is a small percentage of the time the fish I catch on worms or jigs are suspended. This is usually around docks for me. Otherwise, I'd say 80 percent of the fish that me/Donna catch are "feeding down" and only seem to see our lures after they reach the bottom. Still, I believe line size is important from a visibility standpoint. Don't know why it would matter to the fish but 40 years of fishing experience has shown me that it does.

[merc1997 Bo]

contrary to popular believe, i do fish in the daytime, when i have to, and more so in the fall and winter. sink rate in the daytime is still crucial to triggering strikes, just as when crank bait fishing, tuning in on the right retrieve speed. you would not fish a crank bait or spinner bait one speed all the time would you?? the answer to that is NO. speed is just as a critical factor when fishing falling type lures, or dragging the bottom with them.

here is another example that it is more about the correct speed. as an experiment, my buddy and i were catching fish on a split shot rig, during the day, on 6lb. mono. just to see if there was any difference in bites between using heavier line versus light line, we each rigged up a rig with 12lb, and one with 6lb. on the 12lb. we tried different weights until we had the exact same fall rate as the 6lb rig, which we had already been catching bass on, but has several freight train break offs. one of us fished the light line while the other fished the heavier line, and we would switch off. there was not one bit of difference in the amount of bites light line versus heavy line, but there was a major difference in bass landed. the heavier line won hands down. it put more bass in the boat, and most important, the big bass bites.

we have since done this same experiment with light line versus heavier line, and as long as we get the sink rates the same, there is very little if any difference in the amount of bites. but, there is always a big difference in bass put over the side of the boat, particularly when dealing with bigger bass anywhere near cover.

kelly williamson and i have tried the same experiment using drop shots. we were not doodling vertical, but casting and dragging back across the bottom. very little difference in bites, but big difference in favor of heavier line in the landing department.

there is not a right or wrong here, but just different methods of catching the same bass.

one other important factor is to fish with what you have confidence in.

bo

[Champ188]

My point is, when bass are feeding down ... when all of your bites are coming while your lure is on the bottom ... it makes no difference how slowly or quickly it falls. Of course it matters how fast you move it along the bottom but the fall rate is insignificant.

When they are feeding up ... either suspended or rising off the bottom to bite, yes the rate of fall matters.

[J-Doc]

Stupid question and I feel like I should know the answer but why does fall rate make such a dramatic impact? Is it because the forage they are keyed in on has a certain fall rate and thats what triggers the bite? I could see that being the reason due to biting what appears to be food as they have seen it many times before. A repeated pattern.

[Alex Heitman]

Champ I will agree to disagree with you here haha. The reason being even though bass might be feeding on the bottom, their eyeballs are on top of there head and they see everything above them. Of course some will still see your bait if it is already on the bottom, but I think sink rate plays a big part in getting more bites. They may be on the bottom and watch it fall all the way to the bottom before they decide to bite. Same goes for suspenders. They may be suspended and follow it all the way to the bottom. Sometimes a fast sink is better and sometimes a slow sink is better. It does boil down to personal opinion and I would always throw what I have confidence in.

[Alex Heitman]

Another point is that I like to sometimes pop my jigs up hard and let them fall. A slower sink usually works better for me when they want it that way.

[Mitch f]

contrary to popular believe, i do fish in the daytime, when i have to, and more so in the fall and winter. sink rate in the daytime is still crucial to triggering strikes, just as when crank bait fishing, tuning in on the right retrieve speed. you would not fish a crank bait or spinner bait one speed all the time would you?? the answer to that is NO. speed is just as a critical factor when fishing falling type lures, or dragging the bottom with them.

here is another example that it is more about the correct speed. as an experiment, my buddy and i were catching fish on a split shot rig, during the day, on 6lb. mono. just to see if there was any difference in bites between using heavier line versus light line, we each rigged up a rig with 12lb, and one with 6lb. on the 12lb. we tried different weights until we had the exact same fall rate as the 6lb rig, which we had already been catching bass on, but has several freight train break offs. one of us fished the light line while the other fished the heavier line, and we would switch off. there was not one bit of difference in the amount of bites light line versus heavy line, but there was a major difference in bass landed. the heavier line won hands down. it put more bass in the boat, and most important, the big bass bites.

we have since done this same experiment with light line versus heavier line, and as long as we get the sink rates the same, there is very little if any difference in the amount of bites. but, there is always a big difference in bass put over the side of the boat, particularly when dealing with bigger bass anywhere near cover.

kelly williamson and i have tried the same experiment using drop shots. we were not doodling vertical, but casting and dragging back across the bottom. very little difference in bites, but big difference in favor of heavier line in the landing department.

there is not a right or wrong here, but just different methods of catching the same bass.

one other important factor is to fish with what you have confidence in.

bo

Bo, you've hit it out of the park on this post. Putting more and bigger bass in the boat is the key. You always have the put the odds in your favor.

[merc1997 Bo]

My point is, when bass are feeding down ... when all of your bites are coming while your lure is on the bottom ... it makes no difference how slowly or quickly it falls. Of course it matters how fast you move it along the bottom but the fall rate is insignificant.

When they are feeding up ... either suspended or rising off the bottom to bite, yes the rate of fall matters.

fall rate still factors in, even dragging the bottom. when your lure pops up over something, it is the speed that it falls back that often is the strike triggering factor. the amount of weight you have on also factors in as to how fast you can drag and keep the lure on bottom if needed. so, line size and amount of weight really need to be joggled to find the exact combination to trigger strikes.

bo

[merc1997 Bo]

Stupid question and I feel like I should know the answer but why does fall rate make such a dramatic impact? Is it because the forage they are keyed in on has a certain fall rate and thats what triggers the bite? I could see that being the reason due to biting what appears to be food as they have seen it many times before. A repeated pattern.

most of the time that we are fishing, the bass are in a neutral mood. when they are actively feeding, your speed is not such a factor, but when in a neutral mood, speed and depth must be right on to trigger strikes. even when it takes dead sticking your bait, that is still a speed factor of zero. speed of course can be either horizontal or vertical. of those two directions, you have to figure out which of the two the bass are preferring. a lot of the times in the early spring, bass seem to prefer something in the horizontal motion. you need to keep this in mind, even when fishing something such as a jig. a coast type retrieve will do better most of the time during this period as opposed to letting your jig drop with a belly in your line and let it drop straight to the bottom after picking it up. right now, a more vertical drop will work better. you should always try different retrieves and speed with any lure until you discover the right combination.

another example of perceived speed would be say an 8" straight tail worm, and an 8" snake tail worm fished with the same weight. bass will perceive those as two different speeds, even though they might actually fall very close in speed.

top water baits also require different speeds on different days to gather strikes. i have seen days that i had to work a spook at the speed of light, nearly, to draw strikes, and the next day a very slow cadence was needed.

fish the right depth at the right speed.

bo