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[Hog Wally]

I hit the river today surprisingly I seen more than dead smallies. I seen a lot of dead suckers in less than 5 ft of water. Not sure why they wouldn't do recovery. I've gigged hundreds of times and almost always u can make several passes and pick those winged ones up easily. I fished 4 holes and seen at least 2 dead fish in each hole.

[MOsmallies]

All of those pictures are upsetting as hell to me but he's within his legal rights. He's not poaching. So you say those were not caught out of a river though?

[Chief Grey Bear]

No no. They were caught from the river.

He is a great friend of mine but I won't take him fishing.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I was just playing off what Drew said.

[Chief Grey Bear]

And yes it makes me sick to my stomach even though it's legal.

I'd like the rivers closed from Nov to June.

[Al Agnew]

Okay, here's what I have to say about poachers versus illegal giggers...both are equally wrong, and all of us care about both. One problem is bad enough, we don't need both problems. Just because there's one bad thing doesn't mean we have to put up with another.

As far as catch and release mortality is concerned...I think I'm a fairly good, and fairly conscientious, catch and release angler. Maybe a little more careful about how I handle the fish than some. I average something like 40 bass per day, fishing all months of the year, maybe 25 days a year in Missouri these days, though before I started spending parts of the year out west I was probably fishing closer to 50 days a year on Ozark streams. But let's say I'm a typical avid Ozark stream angler, and say I fish 40 days a year.

Of those 40 bass per day, around 18 will be 12 inches or better. Of those, about 5 will be over 15 inches, and I probably average no more than one 18 inch plus fish per day, maybe a little less.

Now, let's say I have about 4% mortality rate...I highly doubt that the mortality rate for catch and immediate release fish is that high, unless you're fishing a lot of soft plastics and aren't real good about when you set the hook, but for statistical purposes we'll posit 4%.

That means that I average killing a bit less than two fish per day, or 80 fish over the course of a season. And to carry it further, and make it more relative to gigging comparisons, it means that I average killing maybe one fish over 15 inches per five days, or 8 per year. And most importantly, I would be averaging somewhere between 1 and 2 fish over 18 inches killed per year.

Now, consider one more thing...I don't pound the same stretch of river every trip. I spread my trips out over at least a dozen or so stretches of several different streams throughout the year. Indeed, in the last few years I think the most I've ever fished a single stretch in a year was maybe 5 times. So chances are I would only be killing one big fish out of a given stretch every ten years or more.

So, I, as one single catch and release angler, can't have a huge impact on the numbers of BIG bass in any given stretch of river.

But ONE illegal gigger can take, or kill, or wound, more big fish in ONE trip than I can in ten years. And the whole point is that I can't target big fish any more than I am already. The gigger can specifically target big fish, and kill them. It doesn't matter whether he's targeting ONLY big fish. Any illegal gigger, no matter what his reason for gigging bass is, is going to go for every big fish he sees, it's just human nature.

Don't misunderstand, gigging does not really effect the overall bass population that much. But when fish over 18 inches make up such a small percentage of the population to begin with, it just doesn't take all that much to put a huge dent in their numbers. Sure, there are a LOT more catch and release anglers than illegal giggers, so the overall effect of catch and release angling may be significant. But on a one on one basis, giggers can have a FAR greater effect on big bass numbers. And add to the simple statistics the fact that when a lot of gigging is done the bass are congregated in relatively few places, so it isn't like a single gigger has to cover the whole float stretch to have an impact, he can pretty much gig a couple of pools and decimate the big bass that in the summer might be spread out over many miles of river.

Of course, if I was a meat fisherman, whether a poacher or not, and kept every big bass I caught, I could have a much greater impact on the numbers of big fish...I would be killing 30-40 18 inch plus fish per year, with as many as five of them on a single 7-12 mile stretch of river. Still doesn't equal what a single gigger can do in a single wintering pool.

[Al Agnew]

And yes it makes me sick to my stomach even though it's legal.

I'd like the rivers closed from Nov to June.

I kinda agree...it's obvious that a good winter angler who knows where the fish are can catch, and kill if so inclined, a lot more big fish than the average summer angler can (although you couldn't prove it by me this winter). And especially when they pound the spring holes. I too would like to see the season closed to all but catch and release fishing from November to June. I don't know how many of the winter anglers, especially those who concentrate on the obvious spots around the big springs, are meat fishermen, but just a few could do a lot of damage in those places, and the damage would extend to long stretches of river during the summer. MDC was supposed to be doing a study about angling pressure around the big springs, but I haven't heard any final results.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Now take your numbers for the C&R crowd and multiply by a few hundred.

Then take a few thousand and add a limit of fish once per week.

Then take a few hundred and double limit of fish due to over limits and under sized fish.

And you will be far and above what giggers are doing.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I kinda agree...it's obvious that a good winter angler who knows where the fish are can catch, and kill if so inclined, a lot more big fish than the average summer angler can (although you couldn't prove it by me this winter). And especially when they pound the spring holes. I too would like to see the season closed to all but catch and release fishing from November to June. I don't know how many of the winter anglers, especially those who concentrate on the obvious spots around the big springs, are meat fishermen, but just a few could do a lot of damage in those places, and the damage would extend to long stretches of river during the summer. MDC was supposed to be doing a study about angling pressure around the big springs, but I haven't heard any final results.

Have you heard anymore about the Smallmouth tagging study?

[Al Agnew]

Nope, we were wondering about that at the SMA meeting. The last I heard, Matt Wier emailed them and is awaiting word on the tagging study as well as a study they were supposed to have done on river tournaments on Current River a few years ago, which was apparently never published.