Accident on Beaver Lake

[Blitz960]

Blitz960;

I see both Beaver and Stumpys point of views I also know “Dan the Fisherman” is close to this subject in real life and may be more sensitive to this thread than he might be to others and everyone needs to remember that when posting one of our own members and friends is involved to a degree.

You brought up the analogy of “Hunting” Most states during the Modern Gun season REQUIRE hunter orange to be worn at all times in the field, but in Archery they do not, it’s reasoning is to protect people from being shot. Should Small non-power boats be allowed on the lakes? Certainly its public water! However they should be required to have PFD’s on at all times and have Bow and Stern Lights and FLAGS flown ( Orange or Red ) these are bare safety requirements.

There are also certain areas Firearms are not allowed to be used and Bows are, The same could apply to non-powered boats as well ( there are lakes even that do not allow for power boats ) The non-power boats should not be in the main channel of a lake or creek arm it is dangerous period, during the Heavy Boating season typically April 1^st to October 1^st. Beaver lake is 28,000 acres which is more than enough water to be shared. However certain areas should be off limits to the non-power boats. I also believe certain areas should be NO WAKE zones for the bigger power boats.

Its really not about post count as it is the POST itself.

Agree. PFDs, bow and stern lights, flags and even safety classes if needed are definitely one of those safety features that applies to everyone, regardless of type of crafts. I also agree that there are certain areas of the lake that are more highly trafficked and one in a position of a relatively susceptible water craft should not be in. More of a personal safety common sense that it should of a law, I'd think. If you hear about accidents on any bodies of water, it is usually someone ( motorized craft or not) that made a mis-judgement in their own safety common sense that unfortunately sometimes will cost their lives. It's like pedestrian crossings. You know cars are REQUIRED BY LAW TO STOP. but common sense tells us that in spite of that, we still need to be wary and watch out before crossing.

So, yes, there are certain areas that are definitely more suitable than others for each type of crafts.

Water displacement is an example of common sense. Too many tragedies happened ( big or small crafts) because of that. Even ferries that are heavily loaded are susceptible to the laws of physics. So , yes , I see both line of reasonings from not any particular posting. I mentioned the post count as a side distraction but certainly anyone can see my long winded post after that explained the exact nature of the post, but not the count.

Certainly the mentioned " peak" season of April through Oct, would definitely see more traffic and unfortunately sometimes, more accidents. (July 4th, Memorial Day etc). But this "peak" season also coincide with warmer and nicer water sport times of the year. As I mentioned earlier, this is something we all need to be cognizant about and be responsible equally... Especially if you're in a "small non power boat. Common sense means stay off main channel if possible. Like the pedestrian trying to cross the PedEx.

This is a great forum with lots of tips about fishing, safety, how-to first aid kit, and even pics of delicious cookings. I read this forum daily and have truly enjoyed the postings. As said, I don't post very often but interjected because while many replies to this thread offers valuable tips, some offered what I'd think is a one-sided discussion where " I'm not changing a thing but you need to for your own good even though it is not my house that you're in to begin with". Tips and advice are great when it is for the good of the entire whole. Not so , IMO, when it is at the expense of others.

Safety is like a continuing SELF improvement education. Very much like golf, one can never be done learning. WE don't tell others how to play golf as we aren't that good ourselves. Tiger Woods , during the peak of his career, once wrote a book titled " How I Play Golf". And not " How YOU Should Play Golf".

I post because I see both side of the discussion ( I have both type of crafts) and if the weather is awesome like today, I'd want to bring out my small non power boat, I can. Not in Uncle Bob's protected pond or during a specified time, but anywhere and anytime I feel it's most convenient to me. Of course it is then not only others responsibilities but most importantly, my own...... Regardless if today falls within April through Oct. of course if I'm bringing out the bigger powered boat, then it is also my responsibility to not only my own but others that I share the water with. I don't think I want to tell those to stay off the waters and go back to the " protected cove".

We're all tied together if we're in this forum to begin with. The love of our area's waters and/or fishing. It is our own little slice of heaven here in NWA.

P/s: the first aid kit that FF posted is a great read if you haven't already. I just came back from Walmart with updated stuff for my kit. Thanks.

[1969Larson]

Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Not all kayakers want to paddle around secluded coves. There is an Olympic kayaker who regularly paddles a huge portion of Beaver Lake.... Many, many miles of it. It's your responsibility to look for him and see him.

Regardless of the season (peak or not), or particular location on the lake (quiet cove or main body), it is YOUR responsibility to look for and see other watercraft. It doesn't matter what size they are. If you can't see them before you are too close then you are going too fast.

[beaverbeater]

I'm sorry if I came off harsh. But I don't take kindly to people telling me what I can and can't do based upon my equipment. it's my tax dollars, and I adhear to the law. And if you are going to throw out such a negative, self consuming post about how you have to have a certain boat to go out there and basically say I'm not welcome, im gonna come back with teeth. There are tons of activities that the lake provide other than taking a large boat out. and just because you don't like them doesn't mean the lake is yours. I just felt the post was terribly selfish. Take it for what you want.

[Bullshoalscat]

Ive been following this for awhile and just wanted to add that us as power boaters should be aware of our surroundings so as the non powered boaters. A few years back I was fishing a nite tournament on Bull Shoals and as I was coming in for the weigh in at 2AM I seen something in the middle of lake ( was in Mo side so speed limit 35 at nite) when I suddenly realized it was two teenagers in a two man kayak in the middle of a narrow part of the lake, I almost hit them NO LIGHTS of any kind chewed their azzezz out real good and stayed till no more boats came by for the weigh-in if Id had water patrol number I would have called them. With that being said I strongly feel that all non power boaters should be required to have a flag (like ATV's) and lights so we can see them better

[hoglaw]

I've been watching this thread closely and seems like most of the guys here that has more than a thousand posts are going after the one guy that only has 15 posts and was voicing his thoughts. Thousand posts members standing together.

Regardless, I agree that when he said " your opinion sucks". .... That was not the way to voice your thoughts by starting off putting down someone else' s opinion. But what I disagree on whether it is correct or otherwise, is... Everyone seems to be "conscientious" of small non power boats but the statement is usually followed by why "small non power boats" shouldn't be on the water or sharing the same bodies of water when these "thousand posts members " are recreationally using their " big powered boats".

Then it is also usually followed by "advice" on when and where these " small non powered boats" are "allowed" to be on. The specific areas "protected coves" and specific schedule are then listed. " Off peak" .... I've been fishing the lakes in the area since 1993 and I'm still not sure the "peak" schedule is. Almost at all times, there's going to be other users of these PUBLIC waters. Also, I guess all these canoe'ers and kayakers will have to all congregate at these " protected coves at off peak times" together. I'd personally love to witness these get-togethers. Also, using the same "rules" set forth, big powered boats aren't allowed in coves anymore and also, during off peak times, please kindly stay off the lakes. No more boating an fishing around after 1700 or was it 0500? We still need to determine the set schedule.

I feel like reading these posts, instead of saying what we all each need to do better ourselves to prevent a tragedy like this from happening again , we're giving advice on what others shouldn't be doing but we can. You see, setting specific times and places where specific group of people can do specific things is like back in the segregation days where specific group of citizens are only " allowed to stay in specific areas and times" and if they do come around otherwise, whatever that follows is open season. I understand my analogy is a tad far fetched but I'm following the same line of reasoning. And both suggest some kind of tragedy if certain rules aren't abided.

That being said, there are still a lot of good posts by members here that mentioned they try to shield "small non power boats" from wakes and other " big powered boats". These are the example of posts that suggest what each of us can do better or differently to protect one another. After all, I don't think anyone of us owns these bodies of water. Last I checked, the corp of engineers does. Which means, all of us as taxpayers do. Which also means we're in the same boat. Funny how the word "boat" comes back around but without no mention of size or displacement or power.

"The analogy to the freeway was a good one. And you mischaracterized it as truck vs coupe to make your point. It's truck vs pedestrian. There's a reason why bicycles aren't allowed on interstates." I think our highways are 12' per lane so that's the reason why pedestrian and bicycles are not allowed, sir. I personally don't recommend bicycles sharing 24' of space with big trucks. But these lakes are wide open. Dangerous? Yes of course but definitely more navigable if everyone is cognizant of their surroundings. On the highway analogy, I think may be instead of bicycles, how about motorbikes? That's more appropriate. So a big truck or SUV shouldn't tailgate bikes in general too closely and always give them ample space, right? We all do that or most of us do anyway. But it is everyone's responsibility including the bikers themselves. If they swing and swerves irresponsibly close to a truck or at the truck's blind spot, then the it's their own fault. Same should go for canoes and kayakers. They need to be held responsible as well but so does the rest of us in motorized boats.

Another analogy that most of us will be familiar with is hunting. So, should the bow hunter not hunt within the same woods and times as the modern gun hunter? What schedule should thus bow hunter abide by? What are peak hours and what areas of the woods should he be in? Or should he just go to his "protected" backyard and just shoots into a sack of target. He'll be safe, that's for sure. Or should everyone be more conscientious with their surroundings and not give " advice" on what others cannot do but they can?

Safety is a joint effort. PFDs are everyone's best friend if you're on water. We can all do better to prevent something like this from happening but there's always the outliers. We do what we can and hope that everyone else is doing the same.

By the way, I have both a big powered boat and a small non power boat, FYI.

I apologize for the long post. I've been following this site for awhile but definitely not a thousand posts member. Thanks.

I'm sure you put a lot of time and effort into this but you lost me the moment you assumed that I'm a "power boater" or whatever category you lumped me in. Of the six power and non-power boats I own at the moment, my only big one is a river John with a jet, and I don't like being on rough water with it so I avoid all but the river arms.

Making an assumption about the type of boat I own because I don't feel that it's safe to be on a rough main lake in a canoe is about as intelligent as assuming I leap to the defense of other members because of their post count. Paddle the lake all you want. You certainly have that right. It's not a risk I feel the need to take when I have ample fishing opportunities elsewhere.

welcome to the forums. Looking forward to you and beaverbeater's contributions.

[Blitz960]

I'm sure you put a lot of time and effort into this but you lost me the moment you assumed that I'm a "power boater" or whatever category you lumped me in. Of the six power and non-power boats I own at the moment, my only big one is a river John with a jet, and I don't like being on rough water with it so I avoid all but the river arms.

Making an assumption about the type of boat I own because I don't feel that it's safe to be on a rough main lake in a canoe is about as intelligent as assuming I leap to the defense of other members because of their post count. Paddle the lake all you want. You certainly have that right. It's not a risk I feel the need to take when I have ample fishing opportunities elsewhere.

welcome to the forums. Looking forward to you and beaverbeater's contributions.

I actually re-read my post a few more times to see if I actually "lumped" you into a power boater category and I apologize if I did. ( I'm older and I sometimes will miss some lines, even if it was written by me). Can you quote my mentioned post if you do find the exact line that I did do so? I'm not assuming nor did I assume that you are a big power boater. I believe I might have "lost" you due to my long winded post and not an actual assumption about what you own or operate that you might have read. Again I apologize if I did.

In fact, I was not assuming but merely debating and brought forth attention to your previous quote in your post. .... "I come completely off plane and down to an absolute minimum idle when I'm able. But there is a time and a place for everything. Personally, I wouldn't paddle the main lake at beaver at any time. Paddling is best done in protected coves or during off peak hours,....."

Avoiding rough waters and open lake and only limit your boating and fishing to river arms is definitely the way to go if that's one's choice. It is definitely safer and most of the time, scenic too. I enjoy that myself as well. But that doesn't mean that others with non motorized boat or Jon boat will share the same sentiments as you or I. So my post just merely in response to " Paddling is best done in protected coves or during off peak hours,....." My entire post was about that and not who's got a larger sized "equipment" ( haha) or assuming who owns what.

This thread was started with the best intentions to remind us the dangers of not holding oneself to higher standards of safety and also a grim reminder of how vulnerable and frail it'd be whether on water or land if we disregard our own safety and others.

But somehow, it veered off the ledge into how others should behave, where they should belong and the times they could play.

Again I apologize if I did "lump" you into the big boaters category.

[Feathers and Fins]

This thread was started to let people know there was a search and recovery in process and reminder of how dangerous this lake can be. Though I had no idea it would go the route it has, I am glad it has sparked some good conversation. If it has got people in ALL types of watercraft thinking safety perhaps the tragedy that started it will save lives in the future, as many have viewed this thread.

I went back this morning and looked over the information that is available about the incident and there is NO BOAT involved in creating it. It appears there was a “Paddleboat” that broke down and a “Canoe” tried to rescue them. I think if any of us saw someone in distress we would attempt to help at least I hope we would.

What I do see is the problem is

1. Going out on the lake without a PFD.
2. Going out when the Lake Temperature is dangerously Cold (I was out and the temp at the time was 48 at Prairie Creek Ramp). Knowing the lake it was probably colder near Coppermine. Hypothermia would set in less than 30 minutes at that temp.
3. Going out in Bad Weather (Sustained winds 20 to 25) Gust to 37.

The media is reporting no Drugs or Alcohol involved, As stated before I would not have been on the main lake in the bad weather conditions but combine it with the water temp and inadequate PFD’s it was a recipe for disaster. However we all know the media doesn’t report it all so I am wondering more if they had the PFD’s but in the accident if they were able to get to them?

I always hated Helmet laws for bikes and still do so I wouldn’t be one to support a law forcing people to wear PFD’s but I believe they should have them onboard for the number of people in the watercraft even a “paddleboat”. And I certainly would support a FLAG law on them. I know I keep saying the Flag but maybe someone will get one because of it.

The other thing that might be very doable is there is MANY members on this site that use all types of craft and those fishing from Kayaks and Canoes could use it to let other members with power boats know the area they will be for the day. It would be a great safety blanket much like the Divers rule of (Buddy up). If you are in a non-powered boat, simply post where you will be general area and if other members are in the area we can look out for each other. With the season kicking in having another set of eyes on you for safety is not a bad thing especially with Wake-boats out, who from my experience spend more time watching behind them at the “Waker” than in front of them. Just a thought!

[Blitz960]

This thread was started to let people know there was a search and recovery in process and reminder of how dangerous this lake can be. Though I had no idea it would go the route it has, I am glad it has sparked some good conversation. If it has got people in ALL types of watercraft thinking safety perhaps the tragedy that started it will save lives in the future, as many have viewed this thread.

I went back this morning and looked over the information that is available about the incident and there is NO BOAT involved in creating it. It appears there was a “Paddleboat” that broke down and a “Canoe” tried to rescue them. I think if any of us saw someone in distress we would attempt to help at least I hope we would.

What I do see is the problem is

1. Going out on the lake without a PFD.
2. Going out when the Lake Temperature is dangerously Cold (I was out and the temp at the time was 48 at Prairie Creek Ramp). Knowing the lake it was probably colder near Coppermine. Hypothermia would set in less than 30 minutes at that temp.
3. Going out in Bad Weather (Sustained winds 20 to 25) Gust to 37.

The media is reporting no Drugs or Alcohol involved, As stated before I would not have been on the main lake in the bad weather conditions but combine it with the water temp and inadequate PFD’s it was a recipe for disaster. However we all know the media doesn’t report it all so I am wondering more if they had the PFD’s but in the accident if they were able to get to them?

I always hated Helmet laws for bikes and still do so I wouldn’t be one to support a law forcing people to wear PFD’s but I believe they should have them onboard for the number of people in the watercraft even a “paddleboat”. And I certainly would support a FLAG law on them. I know I keep saying the Flag but maybe someone will get one because of it.

The other thing that might be very doable is there is MANY members on this site that use all types of craft and those fishing from Kayaks and Canoes could use it to let other members with power boats know the area they will be for the day. It would be a great safety blanket much like the Divers rule of (Buddy up). If you are in a non-powered boat, simply post where you will be general area and if other members are in the area we can look out for each other. With the season kicking in having another set of eyes on you for safety is not a bad thing especially with Wake-boats out, who from my experience spend more time watching behind them at the “Waker” than in front of them. Just a thought!

Great post by F&F.... absolutely spot on.

It is one's personal responsibility to recognize situations/conditions that are not optimal for the type of crafts that one has and not try to "Hulk" our way into thinking "Oh, it's not as bad.. should be fine"...

"

What I do see is the problem is

1. Going out on the lake without a PFD.
2. Going out when the Lake Temperature is dangerously Cold (I was out and the temp at the time was 48 at Prairie Creek Ramp). Knowing the lake it was probably colder near Coppermine. Hypothermia would set in less than 30 minutes at that temp.
3. Going out in Bad Weather (Sustained winds 20 to 25) Gust to 37. "

Yes!.. definitely got people talking, thinking and debating/discussing...

Flag law should definitely be something that needs to be considered as it is not obstrusive like a helmet but definitely will help make a big difference in one's profile and visibility on the water, especially, on yaks without being too obstrusive.

Thanks for your post!

[J-Doc]

http://www.4029tv.com/news/rescuers-search-for-missing-woman-after-canoe-tips-on-beaver-lake/31992082

Still no updates on the search (what the original story/post was about)

I also spoke to the Water Patrol as they were docking for the day on Friday. I volunteered, rather I asked if they needed volunteers for sonar searching or otherwise and was told politely no, not at this time. They had not had any luck and continued to search over the weekend.

I passed the search & rescue area Saturday. If the incident occurred where they were searching, they are not going to find her sadly. There is a shallow point at the mouth of that cove and a TON of submerged trees on the main channel side and if she sank there, I don’t think they will ever find her. After 50-60ft, even structure scan can get a little muddy on a hi-definition sonar. And the towable sonar buoy that they are using has incredible definition. My brother-in-law is a search and rescue diver and has searched for many people over the years. The statistics say if she is found it will be at least a couple weeks if that.

I do hope they find her for the sake of the family. A beautiful young girl lost her life because “she was a good swimmer” and did not wear a PFD.

I don’t care what certifications you have, if you’re a Navy Seal, etc. Wear a PDF!

[JohnF52]

I wonder if search and rescue can bring in a mini sub from somewhere? Should be able to go all the way to bottom.