A Song of Ice and Fire - spoilers

[Feathers and Fins]

Wow a lot of thought there, love different theories but there is major problems in it. No offenses here and please do the same to mine as this is why I love the books and show its a giant Crime Scene and the fans have to play detective, finding and eliminating evidence.

One thing the show does not do is go over the Tournament at Harrenhal, I believe they don't as it would give a lot of the storyline away or at very least explain it to the point people would see things coming. I would guess 80% of people watching the show haven't read the books or don't want to for fear of spoilers. Just read comments online and you can see that. HBO wants to surprise people.

So to answer your questions and theories.

Jon: Were Brandon and Ashara ever known to be together? I think this is a possibility but I think that R+L is most likely. I also think Ned + Ashara is more likely to have occured than Brandon and Ashara. I do think this also however is the reason that Ned returned the sword of House Dayne, out of respect because he had a child with a member of that house.

Yes and No, Brandon was at the tournament at Harrenhal so was Ashara. Barristan says that during the tournament someone dishonored her and got her pregnant. Ned was to busy keeping Howland from killing squires and drinking with him. (Books)

Ned when Jon is going to the wall tells him they will discuss his mother next they meet. This would be an oath breaker and we know Ned wont break a oath. (Show)

Sean says in an interview (big slip up) he is NOT Jons father (Real Life)

Jon could still be a twin of Dany and I have not ruled it out 100% more like 80%.

However would Brandon have ever actually been Lord of Winterfell

Brandon was first in line to Winterfell so had he not been killed he would have been Lord of Winterfell.

Littlefinger is an unknown suitor to the iron throne actually. Instead of starting an all out rebellion he is using politics and assasination to work his way towards the top.

Actually it was Little Finger who started the entire war of the 5 kings. It would take me to long to go in to all of it but he is the one who started it and has been moving the chess pieces the entire time. Probably one of my favorite characters and everyone hates him because of how evil he appears. But short version; He and Liza poisoned John Arroyn, this is calculated to get Ned to KL which he knows is not a political man. He was the one who put the ancestry book in neds hands to see the twinsest. He then kept feeding Ned info to look like Lannister plot. He got lucky with the dagger but used it to get Cat thinking Lannisters. Robert getting killed he knew as well with the wine. Bammmm Joffrey arrest Ned and then WAR. TWO houses put to war by him. Banners called in multiple houses now at war. Stannis was sent the letter by Ned and bet Littlefinger new about it so a little manipulation and now Baratheon fighting eachother in field. BOOM 3 houses at war. Stannis wins and Littlefinger makes the deal with Roose Bolton NOW we have 4 houses at war, tULLYS WERE WITH STARKS SO 5 houses.

The guy is an absolute genius.

So do you think there will two coldhands now? or does Jon the replace the one in existance.

One coldhands just combined and removed a lot of plots to make it happen. They have been doing it for a while (Jorah taking on Jon Connington grey-scale for instance)

I also think that Jeyne Westerling is still Carrying Robb's

Killed off at Red Wedding so we have to believe in books also. Just like they just did this weekend in burning you know who. That is the pisser-offer of the show to me. I want to see the long story as to why.

And finally

Daenery's: I don't think she can be R+L. Viserys in the early books corroborated that Dany traveled with him from dragonstone.

We know nothing about her early childhood book or show, its all based off Viserys. He has lied to her so many times plus he married her off to Drogo (A targaryens first duty is the bloodline with his sister) He could NOT have continued it without his sisters blood as they are the last two Targs and her the last female. Him lying to her also protects his legitimacy to the throne. Rhaegar would have had it before Viserys and Rhaegars kids before Viserys, both Rhaegars kids being killed at Kings Landing would leave Dany as the only true Error to the throne so again in his interest to Marry her off and to make her believe she is his younger sister. Its twisted but so is he.

Ok and You also have to Look at Dany and Jons approximate birth date. This is where it gets really interesting. Brandon to be Jons father it would be about 9 to 11 months or so to the sack of KL. But the Trident battle to Tower of Joy is about 6 to 8 months timeline perfectly fitting for Dany being born there and Brandon to Ashara.

I have really worked on time line with Roberts Rebellion and its hard as hell to do but I think I have it to within a few weeks to max a month.

[Lancer09]

Excluding the Tournament at Harrenhal is one of the reasons that I think the show is taking a completely different path to the same destination as the books. I know in the show they Kill Talisa, and don't even have Robb ever marry Jeyne Westerling. When They leave Riverrun she is described as being hidden basically from view. I think this is because she is pregnant which will pose an issue later for the lannisters.

Your coldhands theory is another. I know in the show they are combining roles of individuals but they aren't in the book. And at this point Aegon is set up to be a major player in the Reach, and hasn't been brought up at all while other parts of the show have advanced past the books.

Your exactly right about Littlefinger. He did start that war. I just mean he does everything from the shadows and he has never openly said he wants the Iron Throne.

I think the actors got filled in with what was going to happen on the show, but I wonder if they were fed opposite information because Martin knew something would leak.

[Feathers and Fins]

Its easy to discount Harrenhal if we talk only about the show. But if we talk purely Book its impossible to not talk about it as it has loomed in each book. I keep it at forefront because I believe at some point in the reveals on the show and probably books there will be a flashback from Howland Reed or Maybe a complete admission he knew of Brandon and Ashara as well as Rhaegar and Lyanna. He is the Key and Martin has said he will appear.

Nothing on the show gets done without GRRM approval and he did refuse Movie offers so he could have the control and ability to keep it close to the books, even said he knew he would have to consolidate characters for it. Hell is grimier concordance by his own admission is over 1million words (If a character farted they put him in it and who he was and what house etc).

As for the Actors Martin did fill them in so they would know a secret about the character he even insisted on Sean Bean being Ned. Yes he could have filled them in with false info wouldn't shock me but I also doubt it as he wanted them to able to act with emotion.

[Feathers and Fins]

Three things I always keep in mind when playing detective with this story is

1. Prophecy

2.Dreams

3. Magic

Whenever im looking at a Stark or Targaryen you have to as they have 1 or all three. And Dragon dreams is Targaryen.

[Lancer09]

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1py3ee/spoilers_all_i_know_the_gamechanging_secret_in/

Give that a read.

Pretty good, and provides some good evidence in the case of R+L= J

[Feathers and Fins]

I have seen that and heard the "Harp" theory for a long time, but it has no relevance to Jon or Dany and proof of their legitimacy and that is how the great houses would look at it especially when Ned admitted to being a traitor.

Also why Aegon could just be a pretender as he would have one of the Blackfire Swords and the great houses would know that.

It will all come down to Howland Reed and what he says. Interestingly his words could start a civil war as well. But if we go with the Dornish Master Plan combined with High Sparrow and the faith backing of Dany and Little Finger (if he is the true Targaryen supporter) then the civil war would be a minor issue basically Many Houses against the Lannisters ( see Tyrions Dream ).

I THINK Jamie is Azorahi right now but in the back of my head I think it might also be Tyrion. Evidence and hints at both. I hope this weeks episode sheds more light on it. Lord Knows GRRM can't get the books out so we will have to have the shows to do it.

[Feathers and Fins]

I just watched the trailer for this next week, Jon sitting with a letter in front of him ( Stanis Letter I assume ) If they use that instead of the Pink letter I will be pissed pink letter is a major part of the story. But I can see it already playing out where He gets it, decides to support Stanis which is breaking the vows and the Watch kills him for it. Man I hope im wrong.

[Lancer09]

Man I hope that it is the Pink letter.

I just think they have already screwed stuff up so much they should try and keep it along the same lines.

[Feathers and Fins]

I HOPE I am wrong but man the set-up from Stanis is there and the scene of him reading the letter and his look just makes me think they will have Stanis as the sender. Granted in the books we don't know for sure who sent it but Ramsey was the prime suspect followed by Sansa.

[Lancer09]

I've always thought that it was Mance (abel) there in Winterfell.