Are you trespassing?

[Terry Beeson]

More like a Hollywood Western from the 40s or 50s...

[Wayne SW/MO]

I left to avoid any confrontations.

Thats about all you can do, the option is to see what some county judge thinks the law says, and hope the complainer isn't his golfing buddy.

You might post the area however so that others won't stumble into the same fate.

[jdmidwest]

My interpretations is that if you enter a stream on public land or county road and you stay in the water you are ok. I have notice some new signs along state highway bridges that state "state property, no trespassing" ??? Is state property private or public? Is it not the property of all in the state? MO has the navigable stream rule, if you can float it, you are not trespassing. The land around it is owned by someone and I would not trespass on it. Ark residents can lay claim to the stream bed under a navigable stream and I think you can be counted as trespassing if you are wading. I have seen a few county bridges in MO lately that have been "taken over" by landowners and are no longer public property. It is my understanding that you can not even launch a canoe from the bridge w/o trespassing according to the signs.

When in doubt, stay out is a good practice.

[Al Agnew]

Bottom line is, if it's floatable, you have a right to float it, as well as wade it, to fish. If it's definitely too small to float, you DON'T have a right to wade and fish it, although there are still a lot of wadeable streams where you won't get run off. Problem comes with streams that are marginally floatable and not often floated, such as parts of floatable streams that are upstream of the usual highest floatable point. Then, you just don't know, and it would take a court case to settle the matter.

As a practical matter...check out where you are accessing wadeable creeks. If there is an obvious and well-used place to park and a lack of purple paint and NO TRESPASSING signs, you're probably okay to wade upstream or down and fish. Just keep a low profile and stay in the stream bed. But if there is that obnoxious purple paint everywhere or there isn't a good place to park, you're taking a huge chance in trying to fish it.

[brownieman]

Al,

What deems a stream as you say "floatable"...proper term "navigatable".

I could be mistaken but I beleive navigatable is how the law reads.

The guidlines for this law originated many years ago. Do you know when, where and why the term navigatable was conceived?

I have numerous friends whom own land that have sections of different rivers running through them. These streches are bare none the least fished waters in the state...due to this you can imagine the quality of the fishing in these streams... for lack of a better term "forbidden waters" is what they are to the general public.

These waters hold an amazing amount of huge smallies, gogs, etc...any warm water species of fish.

In winter months depending on what rivers the stream dumps into an occasional trout can be caught due to the cooling of the water temp.

Local landowners have had numerous problems that have had to be settled in court...kind of a gray area by mosts standards.

I assure you one thing...the quality of fishing in these waters we are speaking of is unparalleled...the size and numbers of huge smallies is amazing. They are hard to float due to numerous huge log jams that are not cut out to cater to the canoe traffic and flow thru private property.

Nature is allowed to take it's course without man destroying their habitat...to me these are the only true natural areas that exist when it comes to our states waterways.

[Terry Beeson]

To clarify, the actual term is "navigable." There is no such word as "navigatable."

But you are correct in that these are some very valuable waterways that see very little if any fishing pressure.

We tend to think (as a whole) that if we have a fishing or hunting license, this gives us permission to fish or hunt anywhere our prey is found. When Europeans came to the western hemisphere and introduced the idea of ownership of property, this concept began to disappear.

When it comes to hunting, you do not automatically have permission to hunt game on any property anytime. Game laws (thank goodness) have put a damper on uncaring "so-called" hunters who damaged property and did not leave things the way they found it. I've heard it from the mouths of many hunters who believed having a license and paying taxes entitled them to hunt "wherever (they) please."

There is some truth to that in fishing. Impoundments on private land (such as farm ponds) are inaccessible to the public because the access is private. Flowing water is different. The laws are gray and confusing in many cases, but the stream in question (in the states of Arkansas and Missouri anyway) have to be deemed "navigable" by the courts or government entity. I'm not sure which entity does that, but that is what is indicated.

Now, there is a question of flood waters. A much discussed case in Louisiana involved a group of people accessing some otherwise private property during a flood. That case is still in the system somewhere, I believe.

Now, if you go "out west," the laws differ and there are private stretches of streams that are quite navigable. You are trespassing if you are in the stream, in a boat, or whatever on some of these stretches.

Again, if there is any question, I would not risk being harassed or even worse by trying to get into an appealing stretch of water that may or may not be navigable.

However, in many cases just asking permission can work wonders. I recently was in a conversation with an individual I had just met. We discovered both of us having lived in the same area of Arkansas and had mutual friends. Then he mentioned his "getaway" that lies on a stream that I would like to fish sometime, but is very private. When I jokingly said something about fishing it, he told me how to get there and to help myself to some really good fishing there. Most landowners just want to be recognized and respected. They pay property taxes and invest time and money in the land and improvements. But many are more than willing to allow you access if you just leave the property like you found it. AND don't tell the whole world or internet about the details of the honey hole and your good fortune...

[jcoberley]

Terry, well said. And I agree most of the time asking and keeping one's mouth shut works. It's sad that if one tells a friend and he tells another and someone trashes it then poof no more access for anyone. All because of some jurk that dose not care or thinks its funny to bust bottles and such. After all the land owner is not their momma and shouldn't have to clean up after them! I know I have cleaned up after people just to keep a nice place and to keep it from being posted and I am sure you have. And I hate hearing people say "I didnt do it" and leaving it lay.

[Gavin]

I think Al is drawing the distinction between navigable, non-navigable float streams, and private waters..Navigability really doesnt have much to do with it because most of our float streams have a well documented history of public use and lots of public accesses points..Access at road crossings above the first "official" public access point is the issue, and its not well defined..Best to ask permission or avoid areas that say keep out..

For example...There is a long section (at least 10 river miles) of the Osage Fork that flows through a piece of property called the Empire Ranch. I've floated skinnier water on many occasions, but all the bridge access points in the Empire stretch make it VERY clear that you are not welcome.I'm pretty sure that you would get arrested if you went fishing there, and I'm not sure that you would win in court...Joe Schmo fisherman v. Well Connected Wealthy Local Landowner....Not worth the bother. Cheers.

[WebFreeman]

Al, I'm not familiar w/ purple paint meaning something. Is that the international no trespassing color?

[CMAC]

Al, I'm not familiar w/ purple paint meaning something. Is that the international no trespassing color?

Purple paint on a tree or fence post is generally how it's done, especially for us rednecks.

"Look it up, state law"