Ethanol in Gas

[dave potts]

I recently accidently put some 10% ethanol gas in my 15 horse Evinrude and after a short trip out noticed black colored oil on my garage floor (about a tablespoon amount). My marine mechanic informed me this was unburned fuel with carbon in it going through.

So this brings the question-what are boaters going to do in Missouri where all gas is going to contain 15% ethanol starting next year? I've always read that alcohol is bad on outboards. Any thoughts out there on this?

Dave

[fishinwrench]

Dave, Well here is this link...ethanol in outboards...... For whatever it's worth.

Older outboards will probably suffer some problems with the original rubber based components (gaskets, crankshaft seals, needle valves, hoses, fuel pump diaphrams, ect.) with extended use of ethanol.

But the newer compounds have been in use for quite a while now, that resist deteriation, so I'm told. I remember when the first traces of ethanol began to find their way into boat fuel tanks around here....Johnson/Evinrude VRO pumps began dropping like flys. The manufacturer was quick to upgrade the components of the VRO, but lots of folks never trusted the Johnson/Evinrude VRO system again, and many had them disconnected and elected to mix their fuel manually, thinking that the VRO was "junk"....when it is actually a good system. It just wasn't ORIGINALLY designed to withstand alcohol....but it is now, and has been for quite some time.

I guess the biggest "debate" going, concerning ethanol, is whether or not it actually takes more energy to produce...than it yields.

I keep hearing this...

[Crippled Caddis]

As fishinwrench pointed out if your motor is a later model produced after 'gasahol' became common you should be fine because makers changed rubber products and a few other things to compounds that can accept the use of alcohol. But if you're using an older motor be prepared to rekit carbs, fuel pumps and lines with newer components. In my older motors I avoid it entirely.

As to the cost of ethanol production it is federally sybsidized if that tells you anything.(

[dave potts]

Well, I did a little more research (should have done this first I guess) and came across this press release. Apparently the higher octane gas will not contain alcohol and apparently the lower octane won't either when alcohol is higher in price than gas-which I expect will be most of the time.

Glenn, I guess my next question would be will the higher octane gas such as 91 be harmful to older motors. I have a 1983 115 HP Merc in which I have always used 87 octane per the owners manual. I assume 92 would be ok.

Here is the press release link:

http://www.gov.mo.gov/press/EthanolSigning070506.htm

[fishinwrench]

higher octane "gas" certainly won't hurt it, but I don't see where you learned that the "new age" fuel will not be alcohol based....it is my understanding that it will....and is.

Your '83 115 might have some problems..it's gonna depend on the frequency of use it gets. Carb kits, fuelpump diaphrams, and hoses are not a big deal.

But the rubber that the older crankshaft seals were made of, doesn't last long after some exposure of alcohol. And that's a high dollar (labor intensive) repair. You absolutly CAN NOT tune an outboard to run smoothly once the C-shaft seals start loosing pressure.

[skeeter]

15 % ETHANOL mandated in Missouri gasoline next year ??

That SUCKS, there goes fuel mileage down some more !! Missed the rip-off ETHANOL Lobby forcing that one through the Legislature.

Hope everyone complains about it loud and long to their State Reps. and Senators when they discover what it will do to prices, decreased power, carbon build up and mileage. Wake up folks, ETHANOL ain't the answer and has it's own set of problems. There's a special interest group forcing it down our throats and they have plenty of funding to "influence public opinion ". Wait and see what highly increased corn prices do to food prices, anyone seen the price of a gallon of milk lately ?

The good guys at Hydrotec in Nixa suggested I start using " Sea Foam " fuel additive in the Yamahammer due to ETHANOL CARBON DEPOSITS on Oxygen sensor rendering it useless. So far, so good, anyone else with the dreaded ETHANOL CARBON DEPOSITS might try it. Lot's of outdoor power equipment stores like Max's North of Kimberling City on Hwy 13 carry it due to ETHANOL caused problems in two cycle engines.

[Crippled Caddis]

skeeter wrote:

<The good guys at Hydrotec in Nixa suggested I start using " Sea Foam " fuel additive>

I use it in ALL of my small engines. It keeps them clean AND acts as a fuel preservative to extend the storage life of the junk that comes out of the pumps these days. Two ounces per gallon to clean. 1 ounce to maintain.

[dave potts]

fishenwrench,

The press release indicated that the higher octane gas would not be required to contain alcohol-that was what I was going by. However, I was originally under the impression that the bill required that all gasoline would contain 15% alcohol starting in 2008. Guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

This whole thing is nothing more that poloticians sucking up to the farmers. There is more and more evidence coming out that using ethanol is going to create more problems than it solves and it's not going to make gasoline cheaper.

Dave

[skeeter]

fishenwrench,

There is more and more evidence coming out that using ethanol is going to create more problems than it solves and it's not going to make gasoline cheaper.

Dave

Yes sir, you have that exactly correct. I would hate to live in a rural area where you have no choice but to depend on your well and have one of these ETHANOL production plants get constructed within ten miles of me. Guaranteed they will deplete the ground water table and make previous resident's wells dry up. Can't recall what the exact ratio is of ETHANOL to water useage but 6 gallons of water used to 1 gallon of ETHANOL produced is close. Wonder what that will do to aquifers that support springs wherein we enjoy trout fishing ??

[dave potts]

Fishinwrench,

Thought I would bring this post up again. I have found one source of ethanol free gas. It is 100LL, which is 100 octane low lead gas designed for aviation use. One can find it at most any airport but it is expensive, about $.75 to 1.00 over regular gas.

Fishinwrench, you stated that higher octane gas was okay, would 100 octane be okay? Would be worth the higher price to not damage the motor. Should more oil be used with it?

Dave