Oooooo...it's a "secret"

[duckydoty]

It would be nice if the forurm would be used to pass information on to others that are less furtunate and not able to fish 366 days a year. When no knowledge is passed along in a report, what is the use in even posting.

I fish quite a bit at Taney and every time I post a report, there are no secrets. Just the facts on what was working, how it was fished, and as a bonus I sometimes gloat on what it produced. Not to share any information and just gloating seems rediculus.

With any knowledge in the fly tying field, one will quickly come to understand that there are no new flies. They have all been tied before. Most of them 100's of years ago. A so called "New Fly" is only some form of a fly already in existance that has been tied with a different material.

People have been fishing Taney for a long time now. To sit down with the "Old Timers" will help a lot of people around here get a clearer picture of what kind of knowledge base is really out there. These guys have thrown everything including the kitchen sink at the fish in Taney. One can not throw something new. It's been done. If one were to spend some time talking to the fellas that have fished Taney for 30+ years, then their field of knowledge could be greatly increased. Then secrets are not really secrets at all. The only secrets worth keeping are the one's that need to hide questionable ethical fishing.

duckydoty

[Zach Bearden]

The only secrets worth keeping are the one's that need to hide questionable ethical fishing.

[Center Punch]

If this post is about Leonards pms fly(which i think it is) then no it is not a secret because as leonard stated there are a few people who have used it. I do believe however, that the fly will have a "low profile" until early next year. It seems like it is going to be a big brown producer and if that means not showing other guides then so be it. Like all businesses why would you show your competitors your strategy. I dont think leonard is reluctant to show it off but I have seen this fly and even though any of us could have thought of the pattern, it seems to be a fish killer(i have used it and there is something about that fly). Im sure if Leonard wasnt a guide and trying to run a business, he would be more prone into showing it off. you cant blame him from keeping it a secret from his competitors though

i believe for the most part though that all fly fishing insights should be shared so we can all develop better understandings

[motroutbum]

just like he invented the Pine squirrel or pine squirrel sculpin?

There I did it. I'm "that guy".

On a place like taneycomo, there arent any secrets as which flies to use and when. And as far as going to say that you should hide it from your competitors is a load of crap. Coming from guiding on the Juan, there are no secrets there. You have your choice of midges, midges, midges with a side of midge. yeah there are a bunch of different midge patterns, but almost Every guide especially my buddies Chris, Chris, Jeremy, Wiley, and Dave at Abes and Dusty at Rise n Fly, were all about sharing if they were catching and I or any other guide were'nt. The same goes the other way, if I was catching, I was more than happy to share as we drifted by eachother. Its not to say oh so and so is a way better guide. As far as being from a different fly shop and another guide, it is all about the clients. They want to catch fish. So we as guides want eachother to do well so we all shared info. If people want to be selfish on taney, thats fine. they can be egotistical and keep info. But if I were guiding on taney now, you bet your butt I would share what I was catching my fish on. If my clients were doing awesome, and you werent, wouldnt you like to know what I was using to catch fish on so your clients would catch fish.

Ill get off my soap box now, but give me a break. Secret flies are a load of crap.

[Center Punch]

mo trout bum

i understand what you are saying and i agree with you. I just dont think leonard should get alot of crap just for not coming right out and displaying his flies. I dont really care one way or another. I dont believe this thread should have even been started in the first place(It has gone nowhere and is pointless) This forum is to find info: not trying to bring one of the best local fisherman down. I believe there is alot of jealousy but what do i know.

Im just saying, its his choice just like it would be your choice if you came up with a pattern(yeah it has probably been made, but if you are not aware that the pattern exists then in my opinion, it is a new pattern for yourself)

Besides, I dont think Leonard is the type of individual that would not show you what he was using when you ask him.

my .02 cents and i am officially out of this topic

[loo10]

Since I started this topic,

let me comment further....

It seems to have gotten into a ethics challenge

and that wasnt the intent.

Lately there has been a lot of comments on the forum

about "secret-this" & "secret-that".

Actually I think that's pretty funny.

Most things are not new....just forgotten.

I dont think changing one thing on a fly makes it new.

Using a newspaper wrapper as a shellback on your scud

does not make it a new fly no matter WHAT you call it!

It is still a scud.

I was poking a little fun at Leonard.

I admit it.

But some of it was deserved.

He comments alot about secret this & that and names of flies that

no one but HE knows what they are.

I don't see the point!

To me...it's a little like taunting.

Sure, we all have little things we do that maybe are unique to us.

That's ok.

If you think the fishing's better if you carry

a bologna sandwich in your waders.....bully for you!!!!!!

But.....

if you're not going to tell us about the bologna sandwich;

maybe it's best to keep it to yourself.

Calling it the B-SIMP (bologna sammich in my pants) doesnt help.

Gotta go. The WWWMB is impatient.

(WWWMB= Wife Who Wants Me Bad)

loo10

[FliTrap4]

Rich...

I for one tie up 99.9% of my own flies, most all of which have at least some history to some other flies from years ago! I study a lot, tie a lot.... give many away and still have fun!

Now, if you catch me on the river, I may or may not share what I'm using! I would base that on how I feel about your approach towards me and the fishing I'm doing! I typically don't loose sleep over someone else's "secret" anything! I credit this to the shear numbers of fly patterns out there! And should you fish one of my flies, and catch fish...I still feel good!

And if I ever do fish with anyone.... paying for their services or just to enjoy the company.... I most likely would still match fish, using my own box of flies because thats what I know and enjoy! While doing so, I'll be watching and soaking up what is going on around me as well as to how others respond to the same thing!

Study enough water.... enough history... enough tying... enough practice of my casting skills.... I can do it without your secrets!

And guess what.... at the end of our time on the river each of us will have learned only what our own egos allow!

Leonard, I'll catch you on the water!

FliTrap

P.S. Is that the Sunday yellow wrapper off the newspaper or the white one off the weekday addition?

[Phil Lilley]

OK- I'm going to try to address this in a loving and diplomatic way, if that's possible on a forum. I know what Leonard's fly is and while not revealing the pattern, which is not new, I can say it's a pattern I personally have not seen used on this tailwater cause it patterns something we don't have. It's not a new pattern at all, just a new pattern to Taney, or a new pattern to most people who fish here cause I've never seen it mentioned before.

With that said- anyone who goes on a forum and says he has a fly that's producing well and then says he won't share it for whatever reason is asking for trouble. Funny thing I think Leonard knew that going in. He knew it would pull some chains and I think he's getting a chuckle from all the attention. Now whether the attention is getting him guide business... well that's a marketing issue I don't want to touch on. Not something I would do personally but I'm not Leonard.

So- I haven't betrayed the fly and hopefully cleared up alittle of the speculating. But I won't lock the topic... it's been a pretty good discussion so far.

[Leonard]

Phil...

I am getting a chuckle out of it..

yes.. I told a dozen or so people... I even explained to them why it was so "productive"...

NO... NOBODY has ever call and said they want to book a trip to find out what 1 fly is... and knowbody " I " have take out fishing has ask what it was .. I have always willing give it to them...

Leonard.

I can think of 9 maybe 10 guys from this board that knows it and have used it... 8 more has seen and used it (not from this board)... and I have even sent a 1/2 dozen to Deleware... and to Texas....

[Thom]

I have seen and fished Leonard's PMS. He was gracious enough to share it with me and my grandson on a recent trip. He gave Zack one along with several other flies that night. The PMS was very productive as was the other flies we used. It was not a guided trip just a couple of guys sharing a good time. What't the big deal about someone playing cards close to the vest.

Me thinks some of you protestes too much.