An Unpleasant Experience With A William Joseph Gear Bag

[jdmidwest]

Nothing beats a good ole roll top dry bag. Just be sure that they have quality buckles that work. I use them all of the time in boats, kayaks, and duck blinds and have several different sizes. NRS watersport equipment has some nice ones.

[John Berry]

Matt,

I was guiding that day and I think I spent most of the day being rained on. My clients caught a bunch of fish but they looked like drowned rats at the end of the day. I spent most of the next day drying everything out to get ready for the next two days of guiding. Sorry about the bag. I carry everything I like in zip locks and change the zip locks daily.

[Terry Beeson]

Nobody musta told ya'll that Arkansas rain is "diff-ernt" from that "yankee" rain ya'll git up-air in St Louie...

I assume that is the $180 retail bag, right? Bummer, Matt... But a GREAT video!!! YOU DA MAN!!!

[Project Healing Waters]

It's the 2005 version that bag, Terry. The Gear Bag. The 2007 version is the Apex. Mine and theirs are identical. The new one is quite a bit different in detail, but similar. And I haven't seen one in person.

WJ sent me one to field test probably about 6 months before they got theirs as part of their Trout Bum sponsorship package...if memory serves. But the Gear Bag is now discontinued and you can find it on sale all over the place. I saw it yesterday on Sierra Trading Post for about $70, which is still way too much money for a boat bag that doesn't protect your gear from the rain.

[Matt Tucker]

Well, that is the response I expected. However, I did make a cordial effort to contact William Joseph (albeit, I didn't give them much time before I uploaded to YouTube and posted on 3 forums). However, I still haven't gotten a response to date from my email (which is below). After reading above, I doubt that I will now. And I never expected them to do anything about it and was just looking to let the manufacturer and consumers know about the product.

========================

From: Matt Tucker [mailto:XXX@XXX.COM]

Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 1:21 PM

To: 'info@williamjoseph.net'

Cc: Brent McClane (XXX@XXX.COM)

Subject: Thank You WilliamJoseph

Importance: High

To Whom It May Concern:

I would like to share with you a little video we shot while fishing the White River in Arkansas this past weekend, regarding your Gear Bag boat product. I hope that you will forward this to all in your company as well as your manufacturer as I trust you will agree that this is unacceptable.

Thanks,

Matt Tucker

www.OzarkChronicles.com

==============================

To follow-up from Dominic's response above in Ken Morrow's post, it may be that the gear bags both Brent and I recieved were "pre production" models and they knew the issues with these bags. But, I personaly doubt it and that seems like a canned response for when a product fails and it was charity or field testing or prostaff.

Everything we recieved from WJ was packaged probably how you would see it on the shelf with all the product packaging / tags / etc. If memory serves me correctly, these bags were on the market before we participated in Trout Bum, so the pre-production field testing probably was already done (They were in the WJ Catalog that came with all the gear they sent......I would assume that product testing would be done before you put a product in your catalog for sale). We recieved our bags in July of 2004.

If they were pre-production bags, why didn't WJ ask for feedback from their product for our 10day TB trip. They asked us what we wanted and then ended up sending just about 2 of a bunch of things. They were great.

Remember, it wasn't just my bag that got soaked through. Just on this post WJ is 3 for 3 (My bag, Brent McClane's Bag, and Ken's bag per his post above) on not living up to its marketing. Hard to believe that all 3 were pre-production models.

Sitting at a local bar after the Ozark Fly Fisher meeting last night with a few other members I think I was persuaded to purchase another one of these bags and put it through some tests......unless the ones on Sierra are factory seconds and those are known to have issues as well. For the record, I am leaning towards the Patagonia Great Divide bag..............as a replacement.

--Matt Tucker

[Project Healing Waters]

Matt, I think that would be a great test!

I was sent a few pre-production products over the years. And sometimes AFTER the item was already being sold in stores. The pre-production samples are often sitting around after the tweaks and final modification for production runs. And WJ does send those out as freebies. However, these items are NOT fully tagged, bagged, and boxed. It's fairly obvious. The most recent example would be a pair of Dry-namic waders they sent me. They were pre-production samples. That is the pair I am currently wearing. The production run Dry-namics they sent me leaked like a sieve in the lower legs! And they haven't replaced those yet. The seam between upper leg and lower leg panels on the pre-production samples (the good ones) breaks mid-thigh and the quick-release buckles on the suspenders and belt were a hollow design to reduce weight. On the production waders, they arrive in a box, bag, and fully tagged. And the leg panel seam broke right at the KNEE...which I promptly told them was a design flaw that would likely result in higher warranty claims. The buckles were the traditional quick-release type that we see on almost everything. And the belt was wider and there were two belt loops...one on each side...instead of a single loop in the back. All of these changes were for the better except for the relocation of the seam between the lower leg and upper leg. But the seams on the production pair failed almost immediately from the knees down (whodathunkit).

Incidentally, I recently received a pair of their W-2 waders (MSRP $179 instead of $289 for the Dry-namics). I wore them for the first time on Monday. And I fished in water over waist deep for 2 hours and stayed dry and comfortable. We'll see how they hold up after some wear and tear. But if they do, these will be a GREAT wader value. The Dry-namics are supposed to be beefier and have more expensive comfort and looks features. But I certainly wouldn't say it is $110 worth to ME! I will say that the pre-production Dry-namics I was sent are the most comfortable, durable, functional, and best looking breathable waders I have ever worn.

I asked WJ about the warranty claims on Dry-namics to date and I was told by the Director of Marketing (at the time), Sherri Weaver, that they had sold hundreds of pairs and only gotten complaints about 6 pairs...including mine. In the real world of breathable waders, that isn't a bad ratio for a brand new wader product from a company that has never made waders before. In fact, it's good for ANYBODY in the wader biz.

In the end analysis, I think the practice of sending out developmental products without disclosure for promotional purposes is not wise, even though it saves them money in the short run. In the long run, it is unavoidably going to result in PR problems like this one. It's smart to put those samples in the field for TESTING and FEEDBACK. But to put them out there for published product reviews and so forth and not even tell the people they're sending them to that there are some known flaws that are being corrected prior to production is just asking for trouble.

As for our Gear Bags and whether they were/were not prototypes, I don't know for sure. I don't recall how that bag was packaged when I got it. And I got mine a good 6 months before y'all got yours. I would be interested in a test of one from the Sierra closeout sale. I think that would settle it one way or the other.

[Danoinark]

Healing Waters said: "And I got mine a good 6 months before y'all got yours. I would be interested in a test of one from the Sierra closeout sale. I think that would settle it one way or the other."

...and I would assume that is exactly why Sierra Outdoors has them. The design flaw caused an excess of stock and with returns WJ felt it best to cut their losses....

Matt, I would bet you a steak that the one from Sierra will be best used as a water tote...Dano

[snagged in outlet 3]

Sorry, I didn't mean to hurt any feelings. I'll delete it. Carry on.

SIO3

[Project Healing Waters]

Healing Waters said: "And I got mine a good 6 months before y'all got yours. I would be interested in a test of one from the Sierra closeout sale. I think that would settle it one way or the other."

...and I would assume that is exactly why Sierra Outdoors has them. The design flaw caused an excess of stock and with returns WJ felt it best to cut their losses....

Matt, I would bet you a steak that the one from Sierra will be best used as a water tote...Dano

I wouldn't bet against you.

[crappiefisherman]

I bought a pair of work boots for 200 dollars and they said water proof, but i think they where lieing, but then again who cares