Where Are The Snakes?

[taxidermist]

Maybe they are just dispursed better. We had a horse biten by a poisonous snake in 06, he nearly died but is not on the way to recovery. Since we did not see the snake its hard to know or even guess. It was either a Cottonmouth or large rattle snake, due to the space of the fang marks.

Since then we have found several cottonmouths in the large pond, which are identified. plus some other fanged snake with keeled scales that I dont find in any book for NA snakes.

We have also seen large cottonmouths on White River, I thought White even down at Ranchette would be to cold.

A fellow who lives near Pyatt AR has a huge gathering of Copperheads every year. Huge we are talking in the many hundred if not more. Assumed that they gather to breed.

On our floats on Buffalo this year we did see fewer banded water snakes, but many Cottonmouths, but the Cottonmouths were back away from the water a bit. Little Buffalo is loaded with Cottonmouths far more than I have seen there back in the early 1980's.

Maybe they are moving away from were humans tread.

Living back in Newton County Arkansas we see many Copperheads, but I don't know if they are in a reduced population status.

Even caught one Copperhead floating the White above Gastons this summer. The snake had swelled up to float.

The White at Batesville is loaded with Cottonmouths and my friends who are rice farmers say there is not any shortage of snakes esp. Cottonmouths there.

I do know around the place here I expect to see copperheads and have yet to see one, but have several King snakes and three road runners that may contribute to that problem.

JOhn

[wildminnow]

Simply amazing, taxidermist has word of bigger snakes, and more of them than anyone else why is it that large creatures are attracted to taxidermist?

[snagged in outlet 3]

This has happened twice while I was fishing at Bennett, but not to me thankfully. Both times the fisherman involved almost had a heart attack.

He's quietly fishing with the water up around his waist. Both times a common water snake swam up to them and tried to crawl up on them like they were a log or boulder in mid-stream. I mean the snake would swim right up and try and crawl up their hand and arm which was close to the water's surface.

Both guys didn't see the snake until it was literally coming out of the water at them. These guys started crawdaddin and swattin and stumblin to get away from them. How about trying to ID a snake at that moment? I know they were harmless but man think of that!

Also, after the fact I laughed my butt off. In fact one guy got mad at me because I couldn't stop myself from laughing so hard.

SIO3.

[Crippled Caddis]

SIO3,

Good thing you weren't around earlier this Spring then; you mighta drowned watching me walk on water all the way to shore. I think I was almost dry from the heat of my passage by the time I achieved Terra Firma without Snaka.;p) CC

[snagged in outlet 3]

I felt bad about the guy but I just couldn't stop laughing. Like a 4th grader passing gas in church, I just couldn't stop laughing.

SIO3

[Wayne SW/MO]

I reminisce, but the densest population of water snakes I've ever seen was on Roaring River between the F bridge and the old lake. This was when this section was unimproved and very brushy.

The largest number of Cottonmouths was when Arbuckle lake in Oklahoma was flooded. There was a creek to the east of the lake that was virtually inaccessible because of the brush and plum thickets, and it was apparently home to many Cottonmouths. They were pretty common in the flooded timber when it was first flooded, but as man invaded the arm they gradually left for quieter areas.

[Al Agnew]

Good ID pointers so far, but there's one good one that has been missed so far: Cottonmouths and Copperheads are comparatively SHORT snakes. If you are looking at a snake over 4' long and wondering if it is a Cottonmouth or a Copperhead or some harmless snake, there's better than a 99.5% chance it is NOT either of these two vipers. The only poisonous snake that has a native range in MO that gets more than 4' long is the Rattlesnake.

Cottonmouths tend to be noticeably FAT/thick. And they generally appear to be a charcoal gray to black. They can appear "aggressive" at times, but 90% of the time or more will flee at the first sign of a human being.

Juvenile Northern Water Snakes and Copperheads are the ones that are hardest to distinguish. The Copperhead develops the distinct markings over the first year of its life. The young ones often do not have an obvious copper tinted head. And the body camo pattern evolves as well (on both the NWS and the Copperhead). And at less than 1 year old, they will both be less than 4' long. By next year, however, the NWS will be well over 3', and the Copperhead will still probably be under 3'. The Copperhead will have the distinct copper head and hourglass pattern on the body that is sharper in contrast than the more "camo-like" pattern on the NWS. And, yes, a NWS does appear to have a triangular head. That gets a LOT of them killed.

Finally, over 90% of all snake bite "victims" seen by doctors in the US each year (USDHHS) are males under the age of 25 who have been bitten on the hands/arms. The moral of that story is simple: leave snakes alone and they will leave you alone.

I try to give ALL snakes as wide a berth as possible and not worry about identifying them...even though I am pretty good at ID'ing them.

Good ID points...but I'm not sure about your assertion that young of the year copperheads are difficult to distinguish from young northern water snakes. I have only seen one apparently young of the year copperhead, but I've seen a number of photos of them, including photos soon after they were born. They all have had typical copperhead hourglass markings. Many young copperheads have rather bright yellow tails, but otherwise all the photos I've seen they were unmistakable as copperheads.

Very good point about both species being very fat snakes. The only non-poisonous snake I've seen in MO that was as fat or fatter than copperheads and cottonmouths is the hognose snake. Now THERE'S a really cool snake.

I guess I shouldn't be too critical of people who misidentify snakes. I think that maybe some people are not as good at discerning visual patterns as others. I know of a lot of anglers who have always had trouble telling the difference between largemouth and spotted bass, even after catching quite a few of both species. Yet other anglers, myself included, can tell them apart at a quick glance, often even while they are still in the water.

[Project Healing Waters]

I guess I shouldn't be too critical of people who misidentify snakes. I think that maybe some people are not as good at discerning visual patterns as others. I know of a lot of anglers who have always had trouble telling the difference between largemouth and spotted bass, even after catching quite a few of both species. Yet other anglers, myself included, can tell them apart at a quick glance, often even while they are still in the water.

I think this is the key to understanding my comment about young NWS and young Copperheads. They look SIMILAR, but the actual pattern on their bodies is different. They are merely more alike in size and colors. For MOST anglers and hunters, that's close enough for government work!

I have seen two Copperheads near outlet #3 on Taneycomo over the decade I've fished there. Neither was in the water. They were sunning on gravel next to the same big rock in summer. The first was an adult. A few years later, I saw a juvenile. The elder did swim away when I startled it. I didn't startle the little one and it stayed put.

I haven't seen a Cottonmouth in MO since I was a kid. Growing up in East Texas...now that's a different story! They were everywhere there was water nearby. And they could be ornery. In that part of TX, we had more of them than we had rattlesnakes by a wide margin.

The Spring River in AR has quite a few snakes. It's actually on the cusp between a cold water and warm water fishery. I almost stepped on a Cottonmouth there this past summer. But 5 minutes later I was wading where he had slid into the water to get away from my clumsy and oblivious trampling.

[jdmidwest]

Wonder if we have these around here....

World Record Spittin Cobra found

I have seen a few of these around...

[crappiefisherman]

One time I was fishing on bull creek when I heard a squeaking noise and saw a cotton mouth with a large frog in his mouth, I felt sorry for the frog so I grabbed the snake, took the frog out of his mouth ,pulled my whiskey bottle outta my pocket and then,poured some down the snakes mouth for spite.About an hour later I felt something tugging at my pants leg, and it was the snake back with another frog.