Trout Unlimited Unveils Position On Warming

[Brian Sloss]

First of all, I did read past the 1st paragraph and just because I came to a different conclusion than you did does not mean I am under-informed (very arrogant assumption). The fact remains that just because you can point to an open letter by a few scientists(not all of which I would consider appropriate to the study, many are though), does not change the fact that the vast majority of scientists believe that global warming is happening, that we are a cause of it to a certain extent and that we should try to do something about it. Whether you hate Al Gore or not, there is truth in Global Warming in my opinion. If you disagree, fine, but I feel TU is doing the right thing by considering the possible effects on our fisheries.

Also I don't recall saying ethonal was the answer, though in conjunction with solar, wind,nuclear and a myriad of other possibilities that we don't know about yet, it might be. I'd like to see what can be done if we commit to becoming energy independent like we did when we diecided to go to the moon. But trying to do something is better than just saying pick your poison and hoping that it all works out

[Project Healing Waters]

First of all, I did read past the 1st paragraph and just because I came to a different conclusion than you did does not mean I am under-informed (very arrogant assumption). The fact remains that just because you can point to an open letter by a few scientists(not all of which I would consider appropriate to the study, many are though), does not change the fact that the vast majority of scientists believe that global warming is happening, that we are a cause of it to a certain extent and that we should try to do something about it. Whether you hate Al Gore or not, there is truth in Global Warming in my opinion. If you disagree, fine, but I feel TU is doing the right thing by considering the possible effects on our fisheries.

You still don't get it? I've only said it about 3 times now: I am fine with the TU thing, I do believe there is global warming going on, I am pretty darned convinced that we DO have something to do with it, and I am all for less carbon-based fuel consumption. You keep trying to set up an argument that I am not a part of and ascribing it to me.

And it's an assumption based on the evidence of your own testimony, Brian. What's wrong with folks saying, "Hey, let's calm down just a bit and talk about what we actually DO KNOW and figure out how to address THAT?" That seems very reasonable...maybe even wise...to me. Rejecting the BS surrounding the debate does not force one to take sides in the debate. Life is almost never an all-or-nothing proposition. Thinking dualistically is a tragic logic flaw that leads to all sorts of wackiness. (oh...dualism is either-or...this or that...one or the other...with no other possibilities considered) I thought my ethanol example would make my concerns on this matter clear. It isn't does/doesn't it exist for me. It's how do we BEST go about minimizing it. Knee-jerk over-reaction almost always turns out really, really badly.

[Brian Sloss]

I am not trying to argue with you and I apologise if I come accross cambative on the issue. I am not saying there are no shades of grey on this issue or others, but I think we know enough to take action as a country to try and reduce carbon emmissions and find alternatives. I am not saying you don't believe this, I am saying I do. The first few comments on this thread took shots at the existance of glodal warming, sorry if you were unfairly lumped in.

[Project Healing Waters]

We're cool. That's what was frustrating me a bit though. You, me, and Al probably agree on about 99% of the important issues here. Unfortunately, the MEDIA and POLITICOS get us all bent around the axle about minute details and non-essential position points. And then almost nothing gets done. It happens with almost everything. We have a terrible lack of consensus building in this world today and way too much of a tendancy to try and divide/distinguish ourselves and break into small groups of "like-minded" believers who then fight over territory that is burning. It's dumb and very frustrating to me.

I didn't mean to offend you either. And...yes...anyone who says there is no warming trend over the past several decades is simply ignorant of the facts. Beyond that, things get a lot more subjective. And let us not forget that even scientists make their living off of proving their own hypotheses and/or disproving those of their peers. So even they can become jaded.

[Don]

Wow!

You guys have done your homework. I'm almost embarassed to comment with my hillbilly vocabulary.

Regardless, global warning by man or not, we must reduce emissions/pollution any way we can. It's just the right thing to do.

Based on reports/data/credibility/validity of "experts" or other researchers, it's difficult for me to determine what percentage of global warming is man made versus natural cyclical global climate trends.

I heard a rumor, please tell me if you have an idea, that if a major volcano erupted on earth, it could eradicate several years of man-made resolutions and successful efforts that have or will contribute(d) to the global warming trend.

Don May

[crappiefisherman]

Guys these are the same scientists that tell us of major ices ages, and thaws , ones that flooded the americas and lowered sea levels.I bet you a coke there wasnt any 58 chevys runnin around back then.If its gonna happen we better buckle up because I dont see us makin any drastic changes to solve a worldwide problem that exists in this proportion in our life time.Im sittin here lookin at the rain, rain, and more rain that was suposed to be 5 to 10 inches of snow and wondering if they cant call a one day forcast , how can they call a years ahead scenario.Andy Rooney would be proud of my hillbilly rants.Have a safe and glorious christmas.

[Quillback]

I do agree with the need for us to significantly reduce our dependence on oil. Overall people seem to have accepted $3/gallon gas. Just think of the billions of dollars going to good friends of ours like Hugo Chavez and the Iranians. Just imagine if Congress decided to tax us so that we could send $100 billion a year to Venzuela and Iran, people would flip out, but that's what's happening when you fill er up.

BTW, none of us hillbillies should be hesitant about jumping into this debate, scientific polling indicates hillbillies outnumber college professors about 100-1.

[drew03cmc]

Ok, I read most of this, and you are wondering about long term effects, or long term predictability? How about the fact that here where I live, we only hit record highs maybe three days all summer, and most of the other record highs were over 50, yes 50 years old. I have a hunch that the oil companies, as well as the automotive industry has a great deal of pull when it comes to fuel efficiency, or vehicles running on ethanol, or water (renewable on its own without much input from man). I have personally seen a car running on water, roughly 100 mpg, but if that science was given to the auto industry, they would give the guy who designed it $100 million dollars to shut him up and keep the oil flowing, just like they did with the carburetor that made an engine eclipse 100 mpg many many years ago.

Now, they tell us to be more conservative, but dammit, why keep making these huge hulking monstrosities that get 8, read it 8mpg, not the 14 it is advertised as. What keeps the carmakers from getting 25+mpg from these same trucks and cars? I wonder how many people on this site drive vehicles that get less than 15mpg on a daily basis, and especially those who in this thread have confirmed they are concerned about greenhouse gases and emissions.

All of this may or may not equate to "Global Warming" as they have dubbed it, or maybe just a climatic shift as tends to happen from time to time that causes all creatures to either evolve or become extinct. Humans are too darn stubborn and ignorant to be able to evolve, we think we run things here and we have all of the answers, but no. We are just pawns on this planet who keep damaging it further and further.

Now, for Hugo Chavez, this is the same man who called the president of the country who pays him billions for his oil "The Devil". Why give that bastard a dime? Let's keep that money and get affordable health care for the 40% of the population who is uninsured. I am one of those, as my employer has their "affordable" health care plans with a $3000 deductible for a family (that is over 15% of yearly income). He runs a corrupt country, and I for one, thought America was supposed to be opposed to corruption...or at least that is why we revolted against Britain in the 18th century.

We have enough oil to support ourselves for YEARS. I say, bring the boys home and pack it in. Let the world sort out its problems without the international police, wait sorry...my childhood friends doing crap over in the sandbox they DO NOT BELIEVE IN. No human life is worth oil, or fighting "terrorism" which is a thought, state of mind, an idea that cannot and will not ever be defeated. You will always have some extremist a*holes who want their opinion to be heard, and it's one of the things that makes this country great, well made this country great. We, as a country, spend money tapping our own citizens phone lines, hacking their computers, and arresting and detaining those we feel may be a threat to "homeland security" rather than stopping the drive for roads in the roadless areas of the mountain west, or cleaning up the streams from industrial pollution, or better yet, finding cleaner ways to burn fossil fuels or just use nuclear, water, wind, and that type of power. I have lost a lot of faith in this country to do the right thing, and I feel that we can make a difference if we were to all band together and make our voice heard.

I am sorry I got off topic there for a minute, or offended anyone in what I said, but I felt that I needed to hit those topics also, as they are pertinent to this matter in an abstract type of way.

[Daddy Carp]

I think that PHW pretty well stated it! This is the same thing Rush Limbaugh has been saying all along: "If we are causing it, then we can stop or reverse it". Since we can do neither with all our power and technology, it's not us causing it and there is nothing we can do to stop it. If a room maintains a temperature of 70* and the normal body temp. is 98.2* it will increase the temp. of that room if you bring in 10 more people. It will not increase the temp. of the natural heat source for the room!.... but only the temp within the room. If the avg. GLOBAL temp is 78* and there are people and animals generating and giving off BTU's of heat, into their surroundings, it is raising the temp. of their surroundings (the globe).

With $$175 Billion on the table, what I call it is a "sell-out" to the liberal tree-hugging bastar.. ,yet a necessary one, to get the funding that is most needed to fix up what the gen. public has carelessly screwed up! Is the avg.-mean temp of the earth warming? I think so, as it has in the past, only to cool (beware of the iceage syndrom)back down again. As I said earlier about the 98.2* body temp. These people are putting out a lot of Global warming! The only way to stop or reverse it is to remove them. 1st flight leaves Branson in a week. I am now taking reservations for volunteers-to-leave the earth to save the snow bunnies, zebra muscles and trout. I know that the "Global" is warming because I fished Christmas day in just a shirt and sleevless hoodie and was very warm & comfortable. This is the first time, ever, that I have been able to do this at a nearby lake on Dec. 25th. It must be getting warmer!!! The fact that I live 290 mi. south of where I lived before, has no bearing on it. If you think it does, just ask your "local liberal" and they will tell you - NOPE! global warming!

No!! It is a voluntary list! TRAV will have to sign for himself, you guys can't volunteer for him............LMAO..............................

God bless, Have a good one! ......D.C.

[Trav]

DC

How did my name get into all this?

Haha

Im sure you guys dont want to hear from this side of the Republican Gene pool!

Im pro-war/anti-human.

I believe that this planet has an infection. It is infected because it is infested with parasites. And the parasites are killing the host.

The Human Anthill needs to be eradicated or this planet will die. The Human Anthill must be dealt with or when this planet is dead the parasite will just jump like a flea to a new host.

It must be stopped now before that can happen. It wont be long before saving the planet will turn into saving the galaxy. The only way to stop this madness that we are seeing is to pass around the special kool-aid and make sure everyone drinks it. No measures shorter than that will be enough.

Thats just my point of view. But nobody will listen to an old "in your face" athiast!

Haha