Whose Land Is It?

[Phil Lilley]

I think you misread my post. No arguing there... my intention was to say the state of the church in this country and Christians in general isn't any example that most non-believers would want to copy and that is their fault- for being hypocrites, lazy, spoiled. And I lead in every category.

Setting all "religions" aside, every human being makes decisions in his life- choices he will have to answer to after this life. We will all stand alone before our creator, transparent and without excuse.

Sorry if I sounded as if I was judging... didn't mean to. That wouldn't be my job.

[stone9-7=2]

Hey men,no arguing over faith here.

It don't matter to me if people believe or not.

Fact is i was just speaking on what i think,not even going to try & change any of you not my intent at all.

Ozarkkid07 i wish you all the luck in the world at what you think you can do.

It's not for me.

Trav is rt,if our goverment wants it they will get it.

No more talk of religon from me.

Have a great day. I think i hear the water bells ringing.

Go wet a line & catch some fish.

[OzarkKid07]

Good Lord! I certainly opened a can of worms here! Let me first say that when I used the term "founding fathers" I was not referring to the founders of TEAM. I was referring to the founding fathers of our country. Furthermore, I am not a salesman attempting to infiltrate a fishing forum in search of "disciples". I was simply expressing a dream of mine in hopes that someone else might get it and want to join me. Maybe I should have left the TEAM out of the conversation, but I felt like it was important to show how I plan on making enough money to purchase land. I feel like I should give credit to the organization that has made it possible for me to be financially free and has given me hope that I can become wealthy enough to change the destiny of my kids and their kids.

I never intended to begin a discussion about religion or faith, I just thought I'd mention that we're based on a specific set of principles so that the assumption that we are a Buddhist organization or a Muslim organization or, really even ANY religion, couldn't be made.

I find it interesting at all the comments that have been made referring to me as a socialist or that my ideas are socialist. The writers of those comments obviously either don't understand what I'm suggesting or they don't understand what socialism is. You see, what I believe in is FREE ENTERPRISE. "You can have what you can earn, economically speaking". I'm not talking about overthrowing a government here or living outside of ours. I'm talking about using our government's laws and freedoms jointly to become a land-owner, which I'm pretty sure is a Constitutional right. Sure, at some point the government might try and take my land, but that is not the case now. And if they wanted to take it and do something like they did with Table Rock as was mention in an earlier post by someone, that's fine. It's all in the name of conservation and adds to outdoor sports. I think that the mistake I made was assuming that people would understand what I as wanting.

As a last point, I'd like to say that there's an overwhelming amount of "bellying up" going on in some of those previous posts from you guys. In one statement it was mentioned that "if the government wants it, they'll take it" and in the same post, "I don't college try, I fight and do a thing". (My quotes are not direct, they're paraphrased.) We don't live in a dictatorship. We live in a free country. We are not subject to our government, our government is subject to US. If I'm wrong, then what value does your vote have anyway. I had hoped that I might find some men of courage who have dreams bigger than mere survival, but to no avail. It's interesting because I have plenty of people on my team who are passionate about what we do as TEAM. I need another 'person' like I need a hole in the head, but i am always looking for those brave souls that do really believe in fighting for something good.

[Daddy Carp]

"I feel like I should give credit to the organization that has made it possible for me to be financially free and has given me hope that I can become wealthy enough to change the destiny of my kids and their kids."

Just a question for personal clarification. Is TEAM structured similar to a "sales pyramid" like water filters, vacume cleaners, etc. or one of the "How to make $1 million a year in real estate investment" programs? Just wondering as you are using many of the Dale Carnige verbal presentations.

[OzarkKid07]

I'd like to add that the disparaging and negative remarks that have been made would probably be less likely to be shared outside of this forum. If one was brave enough to call us a left-wing liberal organization while 30,000 of us are at the Edward Jones Dome for 3 days in February, I would have much more respect for your criticism. Since that will never happen, I'll say that each of us, especially those with philosophy majors should listen to the words of our mommies- if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. I'm taking my own advice here and will not be typing in this forum anymore. Let's just talk smallies and trout.

Tight lines!

[Phil Lilley]

Everyone has to understand that there are over 2000 members on this forum and countless guests who read it. Just because there are one or two people reacting poorly to your ideas doesn't mean there are many others who aren't typing that are thinking positively. Don't let a couple of people keep you from expressing your opinions and ideas on this forum- please!!

Forums are bad in one way- people can get away with typing whatever they want about ideas and others cause forums are impersonal. You can't see the other person nor can you see their heart. But if you just ignore the bad and go with the good, you'll be much better off.

You have to do alot of ignoring on alot of forums Fortunately you don't have to ignore too much here.

[Thom]

I usually research thourghly groups that organize and try to enlist others in their efforts. If you research the group "TEAM" and its leaders you will find them to be patriots, men of good reputation and striving for some worthwhile goals.

I won't be joining their "team" because I am engaged in another team on other missions simuliar that are worldwide and effective. We meet almost daily and are trying to reach goals set from the begging of time. I rufuse to demean men of good purpose so God's speed to all who fall in that category. A word of advice to you: Don't get discouraged if you are demeaned or ridiculed for your enthusiam or efforts for a good cause....YOU ARE IN GOOD COMPANY. The world acually hung a man called Jesus on a cross and crucified Him for His efforts to give them an eternal and abundant life.

I do not have to defend my faith, Someone of greater status and authority does that for me. My only job is to live it and proclaim it.

My daughter that we lost to cancer when she was 11 years of age is in his presence as I type and because of his promises most of my family and I will join her some day.

[Daddy Carp]

I understand your anx about rejoining her someday, and it WILL happen at the proper time. At risk of sounding a bit selfish, we around here do hope you postpone that trip for quite some time!

God Bless, Thom ...... Top 'o tha day to ya! ......D.C.

[OzarkKid07]

"I feel like I should give credit to the organization that has made it possible for me to be financially free and has given me hope that I can become wealthy enough to change the destiny of my kids and their kids."

Just a question for personal clarification. Is TEAM structured similar to a "sales pyramid" like water filters, vacume cleaners, etc. or one of the "How to make $1 million a year in real estate investment" programs? Just wondering as you are using many of the Dale Carnige verbal presentations.

Team is actually structured as a profit-sharing organization. We don't have a product as you had mentioned. Instead, we provide leadership consulting services and leadership development tools to families, businesses and churches and we share in the profits earned from those tools on a national level, not a "commission" base as with those types of businesses. It ensures that money can not be raked off the top by any individual or group.

[Al Agnew]

Okay...as one of the resident agnostics around here, I get a little uneasy whenever somebody mentions running something by Biblical principles, but that's just me, and is of little relevance to this whole idea.

There is ample precedent for an organization doing something like this. The Nature Conservancy, of which I'm a sustaining member, has been buying land of natural significance for many years. They either hold it and run it under strict conservation principles, or they buy it and then resell it to government agencies who will protect it. And they have very good lawyers, so the land goes under very strict covenants which preclude it ever being developed in unwise ways. Their goal is strictly conservation, not providing hunting and fishing and access opportunities, although most of their bigger holdings are open to some public use.

The problem I see with this whole idea is the possibility that it will become a playground for the members of the organization only. Buying it to protect it from development is a noble cause, but if you're buying public land and closing it to the general public you're going to make enemies. At the same time, buying it and opening it or keeping it open to the general public has its own set of problems with policing, liability, and providing infrastructure. The simple truth is that it's easiest to either buy it and close it to the public, or buy it and hold it until you can get a government agency to run it.

I think it really is a noble idea, but the devil is in the details. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it has to be transparent, there has to be serious consideration given to putting restrictions in perpetuity into the deeds, and you have to decide exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish--are you buying it to conserve it, or buying it to have places for the organization to use?