vernon

Pretty sure this has to be a lease deal where Morris is paying the Corps based on whatever was agreed upon in the contract. As a former Corps employee, I'm betting that for better or worse, the terms are available by contacting either the public affairs office or the contracting division in Little Rock. Typically, a concessionaire contract requires a percentage of the profits to be paid to the Corps in addition to the lease amount. In short, it's good to be the King. For what it's worth, he also bought one of the most popular golf courses in the area, Branson Creek, as well as Murder Rock. Some say they will become private and only accessible to Big Cedar guests. No facts about this though, only here say.

MOPanfisher Thanks much for the generous invitation and I will do just that. When it comes to COE stories, one will never run short of things to talk about!! I haven't been to Pomme in several years and for no particular reason. I appreciate you giving me an excuse to do just that. In the meantime, please keep up the good work of speaking up for the Corps. You're obviously well connected and equally well respected. I've always been amazed at what a bad rap they get and it's almost always because they don't do a very good job of explaining the reasoning of their actions. Overall though they're a great bunch of people with nothing but good intentions at heart. Unfortunately, many times they also have the unpleasant task of initiating unpopular actions at the direction of others. I wish that more people would make the PAO do his job by contacting his office whenever they question or don't understand why an unpopular decision has been made rather than fueling the fires of discontent by furthering rumors and speculation. Then again, it is the federal government after all. Thanks again for the invite. I hope to be in touch sometime in the not too distant future.

Wayne SW/MO I admire your good intentions and tenacity. The world needs more people just like you. I kind of see this as a time when many Americans feel beat down by the system. So much so that many have just given up and now take whatever comes their way as just more of the same. More of us need to stand up for what we believe in and not make it so easy for irresponsible leadership to rule unchecked as seems to be the case as of late. Like most everyone else, I'm tired of continued reductions in services and benefits while literally billions of dollars are unaccounted for each and every day. Our government is in the process of consuming itself as everyone looks out for their own best interests rather than that of those they are elected to represent. Bravo to you and all those that share your enthusiasm and refuse to roll over and accept "Cause that's the way it is" as justification for senseless actions.

The contracting office should be able to provide you with the basic requirements of a self-help type contract. They should also be able to provide some guidance as to how to go about establishing a Private Organization if that's how you decide to approach the issue. Many of their answers to your questions will lead to other questions that you never dreamed of so a one on one conversation would likely be the simplest way to procede. As was mentioned earlier, there are some really wild restrictions and guidelines within all federal considerations. This would be greatly educational in that regard even if all else fails. Since Little Rock isn't exactly across the street from you, you could also start by visiting the Table Rock Project Office and ask to speak to the Project Manager. He should be able to get you headed in the right direction without having to travel to Little Rock just to get started. Hope this helps and best of luck to you and your group. The Corps could use all of the help of this nature that they can get. The Army overall utilizes a tremendous number of Private Organization volunteers. In many instances, the PO completely oversees operation of a given organization although reporting to a federal staff member regarding the handling and deposit of fees or other monies. Many if not most military installations utilize PO's to operate things such as Rod and Gun clubs, Flying clubs, etc. Heck, Fort Leavenworth even has a Fox Hunting club that is run entirely by volunteers! Opportunities of this sort abound if someone is seriously interested in taking on the task as well as the responsibility. One must be patient however as nothing is easy when dealing with the Fed. However, it's not impossible either.

I don't disagree with any of what you propose other than the fact that this is still not a Corps function. I also agree with you when you basically say if it makes sense they won't do it. That is an everyday mantra of most all federal workers. Believe me when I say the Corps is as frustrated as you if not more so. The local Districts are all about providing the best services they possibly can. They WANT you the customer to be happy. However, as was stated previously, after much consideration and discussion when told to "move out" they are to salute smartly and do just that like it or not. As a former employee of the Corps I am obviously a supporter of their efforts and have first hand knowledge of the challenges and frustrations that they face everyday. I also have been frequenting the same project areas that you refer to for over 40 years and I see what you see. Table Rock, Bull Shoals,Norfork, Stockton, Pomme and Truman are my favorite places on earth. And after more than 30 years of federal service, I still say the Corps does it better and in many cases with far less than any other federal agency that I have observed or been associated with. That being said, I hope there is someway, somehow that your park can be saved. Nobody likes moving backwards. Keep fighting the good fight for whatever it might be that you believe in!

Unfortunately, that is neither the intended role nor mission of the COE. And even if it was, such an undertaking would require funding through congressional dollars and I think we all know what the odds are of that happening. What you envision would be more of a Morale, Welfare and Recreation type function more similar to Lake of the Ozarks Recreation Area (LORA) that is operated by MWR at Fort Leonard Wood. That being said, the majority of these types of recreation areas are available ONLY to active duty and retired military, their dependents and DOD civilian employees. There are many, many "colors" of money in the federal government and seldom does one color bleed over to another. These funds are appropriated by congress base upon projected needs and annual budgets. Oh wait, that's right we STILL don't have an approved federal budget for 2013 when the fiscal year ENDS September 31, 2013. Believe me, the Corps hands are tied (and in most cases behind their back) when it comes to exploring new avenues of producing new revenue or investing additonal funds into existing projects. Consider, if you will, the fact that ALL Corps employees have had their salaries frozen for FOUR years and counting because the President says "we" all need to do our part. Then as of mid July, thanks to the sequester, those same employees have had their work week reduced to what amounts to a 20% reduction in pay annually. Two of the major reasons I personally decided to retire before they took that away too. Like many other federal entities, the Corps is simply trying to survive until (hopefully) a more rational thinking and responsible congress is in place. In the meantime we all will continue to experience reduced services and suffer accordingly.

It likely wouln't be a problem. However, somebody has to initiate the action by contacting the District Contracting Officer to make a proposal and negotiating an agreement that both sides find beneficial. Happens all day every day at the Corps.

The Corps would require a contract. They are ultimately responsible for what happens on Corps land. If volunteers don't fulfill their obligation it reflects directly on the Corps. Hence a legal contract would be required. I know you guys think it's a simple fix but it's not when there are liability issues. If I just "promised" you that I would take care of your home and property for a few months while you were away would you say "OK"? I mean how big a deal could it be? Trust me. I'll take care of it. I bet not.

Again, please just contact the District Public Affairs Officer and quit with the guessing, speculation, rock throwing and conspiracy theory. Unless of course you're simply not interested in the facts and would rather just make stuff up. Never let the facts stand in the way of a good story I guess.

Contact the Public Affairs Office at the Little Rock District of the Army Corps of Engineers. Contact information is available on line. Documentation regarding the area closure will be available as these decisions are not made in a vacuum nor are they made by some incompetent individual at the District looking to poke area residents in the eye.

As a Ranger owner and Nitro basher I have to say, well put. Your post is both educational and enlightening. We would all probably be better off not simply repeating things that others have said or, worse yet, considering ourselves to be "experts" about so many things that in reality we really don't know much about. That being said, I know for a FACT that any boat that's not a Ranger is a piece of junk! Just kidding. I for one, greatly appreciate the objectiveness and fairness of your comments. I hope to read more of what you have to say in the future but I doubt it will put an end to the ongoing spittin' contest that I have with my Nitro owning neighbor!

My brother and me are heading down in the morning for our annual spring trip to Kimberling City and will be there for the week. Sounds like the weather will stabilize and steadily improve during the week (at least from a comfort perspective!) and hopefully the fishing will as well. Been following the forum closely and am greatly appreciative for the wealth of information provided here. The only drawback is my blood pressure continues to rise as the excitement builds reading the reports and checking out the photos! Can't wait to get down there an join y'all in the fracas! Will post results as frequently as possible in hopes of giving a little something back!

As a recently retired COE employee I would bet my house that this story is either totally bogus or at a minimum greatly embellished. In my thirty years with the corps I have heard more rediculous incriminating stories about the COE than I can count. The corps does NOT establish laws, policies or penalties - they merely enforce them. Congress and the Senate dictate what the corps does and does not do - including the fluctuation of lake levels that everyone whines about each year. These are some of the most well intentioned and intelligent people on earth. They do not do stupid things just to piss you off. As for writing a personal check to a private individual for thousands of dollars and not subsequently verifyiing the validity of the fine, the receipt of payment or the authorization of the individual involved I can only say that your neighbor might be the "nicest" guy you've ever met but he's also the most gullible and must have a lot of money if he is willing to part with it so easily. Did he even bother to inspect the cancelled check to see where and by whom it was cashed? Believe me, if his story is valid he stands to collect WAY more in compensation from the government than he paid out in the fine. If true, the accused COE employee would be terminated immediately and the Federal Government would likely be supporting your neighbor for the rest of his life. Please, if you can't validate such rediculous accusations then don't make them. Although I doubt anyone would be interested in pursuing the FACTS in this inflammatory and incrimanatory allegation, I nonetheless would suggest contacting the COE, Little Rock District, Public Affairs Office to do so: Little Rock District Public Affairs U.S. Army Corps of Engineers P.O. Box 867 Little Rock, AR 72203-0867 501-324-5551 ceswl-pa@usace.army.mil I promise, you will receive a prompt response from either the PA or the District Commander himself.

Just confirmed that Indian Point boat slips are available to the public - 10 x 28 @ $12 per night. Thanks again!

Bill I thought it seemed awfully odd that they wouldn't have rental slips available to the general public as big as that place is. I'll go back to the websites and see what I can find out or give them a call. Thanks much for taking the time to run this to ground for me, I greatly appreciate it.

My brother and I are heading down for our annual spring trip in a couple of weeks but have a problem. For quite a few years we've stayed at the Kimberling Inn and docked the boat there. However, and as I'm sure you all know, that's not going to happen this year due to the storm damage. Consequently, we're considering relocating to Stonebridge Village for our lodging and making the drive back and forth to the water. Was hoping to dock at Indian Point Marina but was just informed that you have to be staying at their resort to utilize their facilities. Wondered if someone could point us in the direction of the nearest marina where we could rent a boat slip for the week? Thanks.

SRV1990 - No problem - as there are over 650 "views" of this thread, you and I obviously weren't the only intetested parties. As reluctant as I was to post it in the beginning, I'm glad now that I did. The last thing that I wanted was for anyone adversely affected by the mass flooding to think that I was placing my "vacation" above their daily challenge to save their property or make a living. I should have known better. The folks that populate and moderate this site are certainly among those that I classify as "Great Americans" and I'm proud to be able to spend my leisure time at their "home". It's reassuring to know that, as many times before, most of these guys look upon times like this as another mere opportunity to excel and will again come thru better and stronger than ever. Just listen to somebody like Phil (who's very home and liveliehood are on the line) continue to speak supportingly of the Corps and the difficult job that they do. Thanks again and God bless you all!

In my opinion (after spending Saturday thru Thursday down there) you're gonna absolutely kill em'! Good luck and have more fun than you can stand! By the way, the points seemed to hold the bigger fish earlier this week at least. Still very shallow though. If sunny, maybe move out to about 8-10 feet. Early and late they're almost on dry land.

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond. And thanks Whack em' for the kind words - I'd like to think that what you said is accurate but I might have a tuff time convincing my wife! At any rate, after considering the input that you all provided, we've decided to stick to our original plans. We're plenty versatile to adapt to whatever the prevailing conditions might be insofar as we will still have a great time no matter what. We've been there thru rain, wind, snow and sleet and never fail to think that it's the best week of the year. Just didn't want to be a couple dummies out running around tearing up folks' docks or causing problems for those trying to clean up the mess. While we're usually pretty successful in locating some fish to catch, that's quite secondary to the overall enjoyment of the trip - feel really fortunate just to be there for a few weeks each year. So, thanks again and best of luck to all of you as you continue to try to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. We'll be there starting the 13th so if you see two guys in a red and gold striped Ranger 520 please feel free to give a yell over our way. I know the lake will still be very high but for y'all's sake, I sincerely hope everything else is back to near normal by then. Here's to blue skies and dry days for your foreseeable future.

First off, I apologize for asking this question as I realize there are many people suffering as a result of the recent rains and resulting flooding throughout the area. I also understand that any response will be pure speculation considering the unprecedented circumstances. However, my brother and I are scheduled to come down two weeks from tomorrow (13 May) for our annual trip and today is the last opportunity to cancel and still recoup half of our pre-paid lodging (Kimberling Inn) expense. As there is a tremendous amount of historical and institutional knowledge on this site, I wondered if anyone would be willing to speculate how safe the lake might be at that point? I know that there is a chance of more rain this weekend and who knows what might lie ahead in the next two weeks? Nonetheless, any input that the local residents/fishermen might be able to provide to help us make our decision would be greatly appreciated. We were there about the same time in 2008 and all went well with a few "adjustments" and the expected precautions. Again, I sincerely hope that no one interprets this as being insensitive to what's really important and my thoughts and prayers are certainly with all of you that are being so negatively impacted by this extraordinary weather event. Thank you and all please be safe and take good care - I hope to see all of you and that wonderful lake again soon and often.

LOZ is thus far unaffected. Been here since Saturday and the fishing (in the dam area at least) has been off the charts good! My brother and I have caught over 100 fish a day EACH and have yet to fish more than five hours in a day. Kept a limit each of crappie and threw back at least ten more limits. Quit keeping anything under 11 inches after the first day. Numerous largemouth and today caught six hybrids from 3 - 5 lbs. All VERY SHALLOW. Small minnow type baits on roadrunner heads and spinnerbaits. You can't hardly NOT catch them right now. Amazing

Please disregard my previous post. I finally decided to pick a couple of random numbers for individuals off of the menu and left a message for a gentleman named Claude. He returned my call in minutes and was repeatedly apologetic for the fact that no one had yet contacted me. Even explained that they had all been taken away from their phones for a special corporate meeting and had fallen inexcuseably behind. He provided me with his personal contact information and assured me that he would find a speedy solution to my problem. Frustrating for a while but I'm now back to believing that Dual Pro has as good of customer service as there is in the business.

Guys Anyone checked recently to see if there's anybody alive at Dual Pro? I've been calling and leaving voicemails all week and even ran my cellphone battery completly dead yesterday while waiting on hold twice. Once for an hour and forty five minutes and the other for two hours and twenty minutes. I've sent six emails since Sunday night and still no response. All I want to know is how to go about returning my unit for service/repair? This just ain't no time of the year to be waiting for days for something so simple. Many thanks to anyone who might be able to point me in a different and more beneficial direction! Vernon

As much as being bitten by a snake terrifys me, it's actually dying from the heart attack (and likely stroke) that goes along with it that really scares me the most!

Fished out of Kimberling Sat 15 May thru Fri of last week traveling from Cow to about a mile past the mouth of the Kings up the White with many stops in between. Like many of the recent reports, I found each day to be a little different. Caught fish on Sammy, white spinnerbait, Eakins jig and grub although most consistent producer was watermelon red centipede with 1/8 oz. Florida weight from 15 ft to the bank with 12 - 15 probably being the most consistent. Lots of short strikes and flashes on the spinnerbait but couldn't hook up very often even with a trailer hook. Topwater seemed to be less efective as each day went by although I didn't spend much time in the areas that Babs has been doing so well on. Didn't get out that early either as I'm dealing with two blown out discs in my lower back that are gonna have to be cut on in the next couple of months so my time on the water was kind of dictated by how the back felt at any given time (or the lightning earlier in the week!). Have trouble standing to fish for any length of time as well - this getting old crap ain't all it's cracked up to be - although thank you Ranger for the soft ride seats in my 520 or I probably wouldn't be out there at all. Was a little disapointed in the smallmouth bite as only caught a few shorts on the pede and usually do really well on them this time of year. No whites either and was looking forward to putting the wife on some of those. Nonetheless, had fifteen keepers for the week with the biggest going about 4 1/2. That fish hit the Sammy about as hard as a bored bluegill - just barely sucked it under. Averaged about 20 - 30 fish per day so overall not bad at all just not what I tend to anticipate (hope for?) in May with such good conditions. Shallower points were probably best overall but caught strays here and there just about everywhere I stopped. A few good size fish were up in the bushes later in the week but couldin't keep em' on. Even missed quite a few on the pede after having them on for 3-4 seconds they just disapeared - weird. Heading back down with my brother for another week the 5th of June so hopefully it's not too late by then. Thanks to all of you for the great informational resource that this site provides. Especially the guys that do this stuff for a living. Your sharing of information and advice is priceless and greatly appreciated by those of us that are only able to make it down a few times each year and are either too poor or too cheap and stubborn to hire a guide for a day. Bill, Eric, Don and Joe - you guys are the greatest and after 40 years of doing this I still hope to share a boat with one or more of you some day learning how to finally do it right.