Feathers and Fins

Al, its easy to see. just look on Facebook at all the guides around the country with Ice chest full or Bleeding fish from the gills etc or their websites even. You betcha they keep.

Heard of it for years but always been scared to try it. I find it easier to just use the aerator and a couple milk jugs filled with Ice ( put in bait saver ) in the jugs before freezing to remove chlorine.

Those things are my biggest fears of what will hurt the fishery. I hope they were reported

Ok lets say they make it that if you hire a guide you cannot keep any fish. I would guess that most people want to keep fish or at least 80% of people that hire guides do and probably higher. That would mean that the state would be losing the revenue generated by those clients. It also would mean those people would take their money elsewhere costing local business's not even affiliated with fishing such as restaurants, hotels, shops etc revenue those anglers would bring in. Now you're hurting more and more people. Game and Fisheries keep close eye on the lakes so they can regulate them properly and so long as they do that job we shouldn't be worried about Catch and Keep anglers. Size and Possession limits are set for a reason and can be adjusted as needed. If your only concern is because guides give people a better than average chance at catching fish, I would argue so does Sonar and Hydrowave not to mention information on the net and bait shops and hey live bait is a big advantage. I'll put my faith in the game and fisheries biologist to keep an eye on the waters and input to them when asked and abide by their findings so long is its based on the best facts science can provide. But because someone hires someone never guarantees limits except maybe in trout parks.

Ask the Biologist he is on the board, its been a very tough year for catching them like I told you the other day but with the lake rising like it has I am not shocked. I got in to them good yesterday tried calling you in on them but they were in a weird place for late may. I know the tournament bass guys have been catching a bunch from reports. There is certainly more multy-species boats on the water now without doubt but are they catching or frustrating lol.

If they are not a natural resource then why are trout caught at them allowed to become STATE RECORDS? One thing I was hoping someone else would bring up but has not so I will. How about the guides that take out Handicap people (free) or work with DNR agencies (free) or put on seminars do volunteer work to clean up the lakes from the non-guides trash. Most the guides I know and speak to do a hell of a lot more than just guide and put a lot back in to the resource but that seems forgotten by most people. Al, I have to say though catch and release might be preferable for certain species MANY anglers want to keep what they catch. A responsible guide would explain to the client the value of C&R but he cannot tell a client NO unless he wants to quickly be out of the business that just a simple fact. I would hate to see a smallie kept even for a mount with the way technology is today and perfect replications but in the long run the client is paying for the service and has the final say unless it was agreed upon up front of C&R.

I can see all the trout in Roaring River, Should I not be able to keep them because I see them? I can do the Taney shuffle and catch trout, Should I not be able to keep them because a guy walked past me and I threw right there? I can talk to the guy at the bait shop and he tells me where the fish are and what they are biting on, Should I not be able to keep them because he told me exactly where to go and what to use? I write a report on the web for the lake telling people what and where, should everyone not keep the fish they caught based off that? THERE IS NEVER A GUARANTEE when dealing with living creatures they will bite or be where they are suppose to be or everyone would fill all their deer and turkey tags and no one would ever get skunked fishing.

Well maybe to put it in perspective. Lets simply use stripers as I have data on that. It is now 2015 and the population of Arkansas and Surrounding states has only increased in the nearly 20 years since that survey. Can you imagine the amount for Bass and Trout? A large majority of those out of stater’s hire a guide I know how many I see and sell licenses to weekly and I am just one person at one store. That is direct money generated to the economy from out of stater’s because of these lakes BUT MORE SO because of guides who can take people out on them to catch fish. Now imagine loosing that money generated, where would the fisheries be then?

Brit its true you could troll yourself and you have. You can be a few select words but if someone was in need you would be first there (especially if they did something stupid so you could laugh at them)

If you want a good read on the rules here they are.http://www.agfc.com/enforcement/documents/agfc_code_of_regulations.pdf

Taylor I couldn't agree more, a little enforcement would go a very long way as it wouldn't take long for the word to get out even better if the media reported it. Troph, that area is so good at times you just put up with it.

Depends on the water you are on. Some specifically state when you reach your limit you are done ( no more fishing period ) and snagging the limit is even less.

OTF your bringing up ( Legal v Illegal activities ) just like the OP kept bringing up ( Tax evasion ). A law abiding guide will not break either law a illegal guide will. It is not worth it for a guide to do it as at least in AR a violation is double points for a Guide and that quickly will kill is business he has tried to build up, plus with reciprocation revocation laws it means he loses the his fishing license and hunting in numerous states. The penalties are just not worth it one bit. If a "Guide" hands off a rod to an angler then that angler who then catches the fish is the one who is in position of that fish by law (Same as a father would do for a son or daughter). Whenever I have people on the boat with me I use Zip-ties to distinguish who's fish is who's to avoid pooling. If a person wishes to practice CPR after that is fine but I will never allow more than the legal limit on my boat and no angler guide or not should. Its all about staying within the law, we can hash out all the illegal activities under the sun but still comes back to the morals and ethics of the fisherman.

If catching is all you want to do then get a pound of Bass Minnows and a Pound of Crappie minnows and toss them near the tops of brush or along bluff walls. If you want numbers the white bass between 12 bridge and coppermine will produce lots of fish with spoons and white jigs. If you want to lure fish for bass J-doc is right on. Stripers are roaming at warp speed but can be caught as well. Really depends on what you want out of the trip

Well if its a attempted Troll Job its one that brought up a topic I get asked about a lot. And one where all the guides can put in perspective what they go through to follow a passion. Maybe give a few clients a little more respect for what they go through to help try and get them fish.

You seem hung up they are tax cheats, You do understand people of all walks of life have cheated on their taxes right? Hey a waitress makes great tips wonder if she or he reports all of them. Oh im sure the CEO's of companies don't find ways to cheat also, never here about people other than guides getting busted for tax cheating do we.

These lake would as they are #1 Flood Control and #2 Electricity. The fish on them however could suffer if it were not for the fees collected on the outdoor tax and remember that tax is spread out state wide so what is generated from a large lake also goes to a small lake. Seeming like a cash business lol. Lets look at what a trip cost. 300.00 for a half day trip Minus fuel lets say $20.00 Minus Bait 40.00 depending on bait could be more or less but lets say 40 Minus Food and Drink $20.00 Minus yearly maintenance cost for a boat per trip of say $50.00 Those are all must pay expenses Leaving $170.00 Minus Guides pay $120.00 Leaving $50.00 profit Now if a major mechanical issue for boat or truck happens more money should and has to be added to the annual income cost. and I didn't even put in Health Care cost or IRS and State taxes. It would be complicated and why Guides normally have someone doing their taxes. Now that's generic and some cost fluctuate and of course there is some tax write-offs. Sure a guide can lie about his income but so can anyone and if you do and get caught the penalties are steep and IMO not worth it.

I will try to give the simple answer for the question. A guide pays for his License ( Guide License ) that’s a tax goes to outdoors A guide is on the water far more than an average angler and pays Fuel Taxes ( hey those go to roads not lakes you drive on ) A guide pays taxes on all his gear and bait ( goes to the outdoors ) A guide has to repair or buy new gear from clients breaking or losing it ( More outdoor tax money ) How about the Taxes um license his clients (especially out of staters pay) more back to the outdoors Now the long version is in the tax code of who pays the original tax but then is passed on to the consumer. Look it up on the IRS website. This is just the short version. Would you like me to go on? If you look at the amount of (TAX money that a guide spends it far surpasses any weekend angler hands down) that tax money pays for those spoonbill and so many other things and let’s not forget those roads you drive on his fuel tax pays to maintain those. It’s a business they are taxed but unlike many business because of outdoor taxes their taxes go back to the resource, well are suppose to anyway. Oh and lets not forget getting angry clients for one reason or another, or bad weather, fish not biting etc etc etc. Sounds like a glamour's job and fun but in reality its a lot of work. More than most would imagine.

I will qualify it. Any Boat that "intentionally takes on ballast to allow for the boat to ride lower and create a larger than average wake, OR any boat intentionally generating a large wake for the purpose of Wake Surfing, Wake Boarding or Ski Wake Jumping" Again I have no issue with them doing it in open waters of the Lake but in small coves or small creek arms it damages docks and erodes shoreline. Keep it to the main lake I wish I saved the picture I took last week the boat was a 30ft or longer "Wake Boat" Generating a 5 foot wake because it was ballast down and couldn't make it under hwy12 bridge. As to the loud music I have been on the lake at midnight and can hear a boat well over a mile away, there is a noise ordinance on Beaver Lake and again this is another enforcement issue. But also I sure do not want to hear some of the music that is played regardless of time of day. And this is Beaver Lake not Grand or LOZ or Tenkiller and I would hate to see it go the way they have.

With the Battleships that are on Grand is it really any surprise they had implement that rule? Beaver is getting there some now and it will probably happen if something less drastic is not done first. To me logically simply making designated wake-boating and Water skiing areas is since able and the least intrusive solution but then again so would simply enforcing the No Wake Zones and Responsibility for your wake law and hey a novel concept RUNNING LIGHTS AFTER DARK LAW. I am all for people enjoying the lake but some simple common since rules and enforcement of rules would go a LONG way to making the lake pleasant for everyone.

LMAO, first I would like to see them enforce the NO WAKE ZONE between the Buoys in Prairie Creek. I honestly do not understand and anyone with more knowledge than me correct me here. But how are "wake boats" even allowed on the water? By there design and definition they are designed to put out a massive wake that can and has swamped other boaters, disturbed other people by the wake and loud music and creates erosion by the wake. Each of those are directly against either AGFC, ACE or Federal boating laws. So in simple thought as soon as they take on the Ballast and crank up the radio they have violated some law or code at least if they are in one of the narrow coves. If they are going to allow these boats which I wouldn't have a problem with then have a designated zone for them where the wakes do no damage to dock owners other boaters or shoreline's

I have been following this thread and reading it over the years and read the rules and regulations as I actually thought about entering it at one point just for fun and here are my takes for what they are worth. 1st addressing payout /return. I fished many tournaments for years and have heard anglers wanting to know the return for their money. This is how I looked at it, If I went to a Casino and put 100.00 in a slot machine and never got a win then it was Zero payback and unless you are in a position in a tournament for a payout then it is a zero payout. Tournaments cost money to put on to name a few only ( Prizes, Permits, Advertising, Labor “yes labor someone has to pick up entry fees and do the paperwork etc, Marketing to get sponsors, taxes etc ) I challenge anyone to go to a Department store and demand they show them the cost for each item they will never do it!!!! And a tournament shouldn’t need to either. If they have 400 Boaters each paying 100.00 most people can do the math on the payouts and percentages. It is not hard to do You take 400 people times 100 dollars and get 40,000.00 dollars. Minus out the prizes say a 20,000.00 boat then Cash payouts and also non-monetary prizes. Hey most those are on the web look them up. You quickly find out the payout / return. If a person chooses to enter he knows the cost to enter and the Prizes it’s the anglers choice to enter or not just like if a person goes to a casino its all a gamble you may win. 2nd Multiple weigh-in areas. Though this sounds like a good idea at first glance it is also an added cost to any tournament as they must have permits for each location but worse is the area they take up for a stage and parking. There are many other people who use the lake not in the tournament and multiple weigh-in spots severely limit those people’s ability to utilize the ramps/lakes. I have heard it from non-anglers and non-tournament anglers, and seen it for myself. It is a great idea IF no other tournaments were going on that weekend and IF only tournament anglers use the lake. Remember the Army Corps guidelines for the lakes, if they get to many complaints by the public that the tournaments are detracting from their ability to also use the lake ACE I am sure will act and probably in a negative manner to tournaments. I am surprised it hasn’t happened yet. 3rd Rudeness on the water Tournaments need to start requiring some sort of identification for participants ( Flag, sticker anything) and if a participant acts in any inappropriate fashion and it is turned in to officials then they should be Disqualified with no return of entry fees. Put a 100 yard restriction from other boats in effect and a no wake rule when approaching other boats. Enforcement of this could be difficult as most people suck at gauging distance but at least it gives a guideline. Evidence would need to be by photo or now a day’s most cell phones have video options so either of those two options will work. But again not all anglers fishing on tournament days are tournament fishermen so you HAVE to have a way to tell who is who for the rules enforcement. And I have seen many non-tournament anglers get angry during tournament days after being forced off a spot, waked or other behavior by tournament anglers that they get in the ( **** ** attitude) and just add to the problem even more. You cannot stop the non-anglers frustration and anger, but you can stop tournament angler bad behavior and by doing that possibly cut down on over-all instances. Bottom line is if you enter a tournament you know you’re paying (X) amount to fish it with a hope for (X) prize possibly and you know the Location of the weigh in going in to it. Those two things are Known and Given. Attitude on water needs to be addressed for this tournament certainly and without question. But after it is addressed in the rules it must also be enforced, a few DQ’s and the behavior will stop. This tournament cannot address other tournaments or non-tournament anglers behavior but MUST police its anglers actions.

Beaver shores, Bass off points in 20 to 30fow and walleye out on the humps in 30+