Wayne SW/MO

You would have to ask the feds about Shepard and Neosho now wouldn't you? Take a lifetime trip? Of course I have, and I've taken a few because they wouldn't bring them to me. Yet the MDC raises both Walleye and Stripers, why is that? Privilege few are your words, not mine. If you're telling me that 3 million people fish those ponds I have to ask just how big are the ponds and how many truck loads does it take to entertain the "privileged few"? Justin are you a politician? You promote trucking fish to the big cities and then tell Wrench to get off his butt and go look somewhere else for fish???? :rolleyes:

I don't see the comparison? Are you trying to say that a non native fish raised next to another non native fish shouldn't be stock in a stream a few miles away? Why differentiate between 'Bows and Brown's? I realize one is an immigrant, but neither are native to Missouri. So why is it necassary they be exposed to a fish they will never see again? How about Hybrid Stripers or Walleye's, do they need exposure? How about Pickerel or Bowfins, both natives to this state. I'm not against doing what can be, reasonably, to encourage fishing in urban areas, but trucking a non native fish far and wide to enhance a dinner plate during the winter doesn't cut it in my opinion. Why don't we truck to every hamlet in the state, and not just the privileged few? Afterall there are numerous populations in the state that don't have viable cold weather fisheries.

Not unless they start growing them with legs. The thing that puzzles me is that the trout program is, or was, suppose to support itself. The last accounting I saw it had not, yet they can truck fish to the urban ponds? I'm not against any program to enhance urban fishing if its economically feasible, but I would think there are better fish, Channel's and hybrid gills come to mind. For all of those who don't realize what Bennett was, I feel for you. You should have had an opportunity to fish it before it graveled in and the DNR smelled money.

Virtually all of the holes have disappeared, a product of construction both in the park and above it. The spring itself is not the vigorous out pour that it once was. For decades now the spring branch and the river have been managed by the gubmint to increase revenues and absolutely nothing has been done to increase the value of the experience. Compare Roaring River and Bennett, you don't see the same mindset at RR. I think you can thank Sam Welch and Jim Rogers for the "improvements" at Bennett.

I though that 30 years ago, but it wasn't a loss for everyone, Rogers made a ton of money.

My aunt and uncle lived right above it on a bluff for many years. They were near Tightwad off of 7. They would still be there if he hadn't passed.

Kingfisher Hole????

Other states is a pat answer to avoid the uninformed public from screaming LION! It's a pretty simple precess, daddy runs the young one off and he goes looking for a good deer herd and a girlfriend. With hunting in the west at a standstill and the large area required to sustain them, it's inevitable that they will spread east. I hunted deer and elk, fished remote rivers and floated long stretches of near wilderness, saw Bighorns and the normal bear, elk and deer. Had one leave its tracks in our barnyard, but while Oregon had a good sized lion population I never saw one.

"I think that you're boot strapping there. However Chief, when you keep a fish you affect commerce, because you keeping one fish from that stream is one less fish you buy at the market. So, as you see commerce is broad enough to cover what you are after , it just gets sketchy as to what a court will say on the tiny creeks." Boot strapping, NO, but maybe too much common sense? A fish replacing A fish from A market would be boot strapping. You don't even know that the person would buy fish? We do know how much money the outdoor sports contribute to the state, at least to the point that it's a bunch. There's no reason that Chief's point isn't valid today. After all Eminent Domain is used constantly to support large important sections of the economy. The point that any stream that is wet all year could be considered navigable can be made. If its wet year round then it's a permanent landmark that could be used for navigating.

P-Line Premium, best mono going. Yes I know its not pure mono:rolleyes:

A lot more of the teams success, at this point, depends on Cassel. Bowe isn't the only receiver and his inconsistancy since he was drafted averages him out good at best. The game sunday simply highlights the difference between a good mediocre QB and a very good one and it all about inches. Cassel has a bad habit of barely missing. On far too many crossing patterns he is slightly off and that slight miss results in the receiver losing his momentum or his balance and the ability to go down field with any authority. The same can often be said of his screens. Sunday Cassel was on and the results were obvious. If he becomes consistent in his pinpoint accuracy KC will be a very good team, but?

I'm having trouble with this one? Can't seem to get the hang of it. Lets see, BP screws up and it cost them a fortune, but you still get gas if you pay for it and at the market price. Goldman Sachs screws up and they get a fortune from us, and we didn't even get a kiss.?????? And shouldn't GM be included in that list? Their mismanagement combined with a greedy union leadership cost stockholders their investment, and all we get is more Chevys.

This is probably the first time this has been done, I mean seize property. No wait, I believe the IRS might have done it. Come to think of it I believe the DEA has also. Didn't they kill some women and her son in Idaho some years back? If I remember right they were guilty as hell of associating with a guy who was alleged to have an illegal firearm. He was found not guilty, they were buried.

If you're around Gravois Mills then Glen Simms of Simms Marine is the only place to go.

I have a Jeep Liberty and believe it or not it's a 2004 and has 72K on it. I've had it since it had 12K on it and it's never had anything done except new tires at 70K, replaced the original. They will turn about as tight as a Wrangler, and yes I've had both. I wouldn't sell mine.

Actually Al the Lower Snake is pretty busy when it comes to barge traffic. It feeds its share to the Columbia, which in turn keeps the dams there viable. I believe it's probably useless at this point in time to worry about the major dams in this country. They have been here too long and there usefulness is still viable. That doesn't put an end to any thought of tearing down dams, it only means the focus should be on the thousands of dams that have little use beyond tourism. Taneycomo comes to mind. I mean 1 megawatt of power is not a make or break situation.

It will wipe out the walleye bank fishing in the spring at Forsyth and all the other bank fishing below Powersite. The winter trout fishing will most likely disappear also. As usual, take from some and give to others.

You're all trying to apply '10 standards to the 40's and it simply doesn't fit. The debate over what the White would be like is fine, but the argument that they should have never built the dams is ridicules. With soldiers returning from the war and the population needing jobs and secure food sources, damming a remote river that produced little but recreation for the upper class wasn't a problem. Protecting the crops produced on the lower White was more important than fishing on the upper. No one cares more about the flows than I, but your passion woulds be better served if aimed at polluters and the littering that sometimes degrades what we still have. The Buffalo isn't that far from what the White was and fortunately its protected. The Niangua would be a jewel if access was controlled to allow it to reach its potential, but the demand for the big city dollars has made it virtually impossible to enjoy as a fishing river. The attack on the Niangua continues now that Bennett has been purified.

That describes the Niangua for sure, now do you want to guess where most of its visitors come from? If you said KC area first and SL second you would be right. Do some locals abuse the rivers, yes, don't people everywhere? Next time you come down take some of the trash from your fellow townsmen back with you.

Is that what you thought in the 40's, living in Thodosia, or Forsyth, maybe Galena?

While you're calling for sources, how about you back this up? There is a lot of the White river watershed that isn't under a lake, yet not that many take advantage of them. Like Chief said, good for us if they want to fish the lakes. If the dams weren't there the White wouldn't be what you think it would be, it would be struggling with civilization just as its tributaries are. People would love it to death just as they're doing so many others. Flyter, you have a windmill at your place?

Huh? The landowners got paid, and in an area that didn't have much of an economy they were glad to get it. Look around, then think about how you would have made a living and fed your kids in these hills, 60 or 70 years ago! Corn doesn't grow on rocks and cattle don't do well in the woods. As for the birds, you might enlighten yourself with some education on the subject. If you can come up with a better reason for the dead birds and bats under the turbines, please share. I do think its funny you would compare a coal fired plant with a wind farm, but how about a lake like TR? I'm no fan of coal fired power plants, but we need power and I've yet to see one belching brown smoke. Maybe I just haven't been in the right place. I do think given the fact that we have an almost endless supply of coal and natural gas, we should apply our master of technology to burn coal cleanly and build more Nuclear plants. The lakes aren't going anywhere, not those like TR because the economic losses would cause something of a revolt. When they were built they were viewed as a great advantage to the areas, and that really hasn't changed. Fortunately there will probably be no more.

look at the pictures and remember that Branson was a sleepy town. Do you think that the marinas on the lakes, the boat shops, the summer homes, etc would exist without the lakes? Do you think the White could have supported that kind of an economy as a warm water stream? Wind farms, do some research about the bird and bat slaughter they produce and then look at a wind farm. If you think a wind farm looks good compared to a Table Rock, you're on the wrong forum.

The dams are great examples of how prosperity can make great progress do a ninety degree. The areas flooded had no value, not even close, to the farm lands on the lower White. At the time the dams were authorized there was very little agriculture and little value in the economy for the areas inundated. You could parallel park in downtown Branson, which was Branson at that time and the roads weren't suited for a lot of traffic. Like them or not, they made the area an economic treasure that supports a lot of people, and has for close to fifty years.

I don't believe Missouri is party to the floatable stream law, and as such its always open to interpretation. If anyone wants to test it, go float the Osage Fork through Empire ranch and lets us know how you come out.