Wayne SW/MO

This was the way I understood it also. I remember there was a stampede by TR bass fishermen for the watermelons at one time.

That's a brave soul.

What's to be done with the Inn property? I was hoping maybe it would end up being access.

I intend to visit the center in Springfield, when the cold and cold subsides, and talk to them.

Then if it was raised in a swimming pool where conditions were kept optimum and caught on something it had been fed, it would be a world record. I believe that when they are in an environment that's not native they become a sort of hybrid and should be looked on differently.

seems to me that a state record brown came from the mouth of Swan?

Great idea, and probably the most reasonable one. Kicknbass I don't believe the point is degrade the sport of gigging to improve the SM fishery, but to simply stop illegal gigging of bass and trout. The MDC knows there's a problem, they just don't know what to do about it. I believe it more widespread then many think, i to have seen the bottom suddenly fall out of a smallies hole after the season opens. Any threat, I don't want a ban, to ban gigging will bring the giggers themselves into action, at least I believe it will.

When they were there they probably did. The pothole attracts most of the fish present in BS at one time or another because it offers current quite often and warm water in the winter. When the water level is normal and stable it can produce a lot of fish. There is always a walleye run in February and March.

personally I think its BS to call a fish a world record when it doesn't come from native waters. I think the same applies the bass in California.

I reserved spankings for my kids for when the offense could do them serious harm. I think both probably only received a couple in their childhood. I think if spanking is overdone then its effectiveness is lost and then control of the child is lost. I think we've all seen a child in a store somewhere being spanked every few minutes because the act has no effect.

I understand that Haley fired both line coaches.

That's simply not true, in fact you won't find where I've ever posted anything about banning the practice. All giggers, no, but I've known a few that have no problem sticking anything that swims and it doesn't take many to clean out a river. I'll be the first to admit tat some areas and rivers show little, if any, illegal gigging, while others have these sudden drops in fish populations. CGB if you think that was a threat from me you need to reread the post, slowly.

At least its a safe bet it won't freeze over.

If you're an Ozark Angler, The Rock is an everyday word that means a very famous fishing hole.

To put it into perspective however you have to bring the whole problem into today's world. It hasn't been that long ago that giggers who had no qualms about sticking a big trout or smallie had little chance of doing so. Enter stadium lights, strong lightweight poles and the historical habit smallies have of gathering deep holes, during the season, and you lose any advantage that the smallies have. If they can reduce suckers considerably, there is nothing to keep the same from happening to smallies. We talk about a few bag eggs, but how long do you think a school of smallies in a hole, maybe 300 yards long, will last? All this happening on a cold night miles from people, hunting without gunshots. The enforcement and regulations either need to catch up with the technology, or the technology needs to be reduced to match the enforcement capabilities.

Gary I can't speak for the forum you found, but the ones I knew well had no problems talking about trout and bass gigged, as long as they felt they knew who they were talking too. You can't explain the lack of fish on some streams, or I should say the disappearance, to any other coincidence. That's why the Heron scenario is so funny to me, and in fact an insult, because we know they fish 365 and I don't believe they only attack larger smallies, and miss, conveniently during gigging season. What time are you talking about CGB? It's not legal to harass people on the water or take up a role of vigilantes. How do you propose to carry out this plan? You realize these people are leaving an access and traveling up or down river, seldom alone, in the dark of night? How do you propose that they be watched? The truth is I've known a few who would probably send you for a swim, at least if they did it wouldn't surprise me. This is a job that requires legal authority and the threat of closures to bring under control. Our job is to convince the MDC that we don't see any proof that points to sources other than gigging.

I don't believe any are allowed to be killed for anything but research. Most are threatened and I believe a few are endangered. The Japanese are notorious for killing more than most feel is necessary for research. A few are killed by natives, but its severely limited.

I find killing whales for food, killing sharks for their fins and bears for their gall bladder pretty offensive. The fact it was all started when they were ignorant of the consequences is no reason to continue now that they know the harm and immorality of it. let them harass them, and hold the whaling captains accountable for excess,

We can hope, but I think Haley also has to realize that his team is made up of experienced all stars, not wide eyed 10 year olds.

In my opinion, the X Rap is close enough to the Pointer to take advantage of the price. I like the Gold, which is full of perch colors, and the Ghost, a reasonable Shad bait. In my experience, while the Pointer has a slightly better rock, the rest of the action is extremely close, and you don't have to add tail feathers to the X-Rap because they already have. I wouldn't throw one on anything but braid either.

That would be a classic easier said then done. If you understand the process, you'll understand the frustration at stopping the illegal part. Most of the parties don't begin before 10 PM and there won't be any contraband coming ashore until the boats are assured they're safe. We can thank cell phones for that. As far as watching someone on the water, nearly impossible unless you want to follow a flotilla downstream in the dark. I think its a job that requires some legal authority, infiltration, as Kathy suggested, is certainly a possibility. I think the threat by the MDC to impose more regulations or even closure is also something that would have some effect. I suspect that before anything will be done sportsman will have to assure they are not going to let the Great Blue Heron carry the load and they want better answers, or action. Largemouth don't normally inhabit good gigging waters in any numbers nor do they wonder in open water. The giggers simply don't hunt the brush.

Maybe you could steer some of them to this site where they could ask questions and get opinions. They had a site at one time, but it was basically a seed to start interest. They sold it or gave it away and it remained successful until it was sold to an organization that put profit first. It was called the Conservation Cafe and I suspect they monitored it for a pulse on outdoor subjects. I still contend that any mention by the commission that they may be forced to close some rivers, because of violations, will bring about an immediate drop in violations. This is a cult in some ways, and you tell one, you tell most of them.

Sorry about that. I hate to see talk about banning any historical sport that in and of itself does no harm. The problem is in illegal gigging, and if it harms the legal giggers it won't be the first group to suffer from a few. Heron marks, the hair goes up on the back of my neck everytime I hear this insult. They need to explain why, there are only Heron marks on smallies during gigging season, why only on streams that allow gigging, and why not on every stream where gigging occurs. They aren't paid to talk to us like we're idiots, they're paid to get, and distribute, concrete answers.

How do smallmouth? The sucker family is native to Missouri streams and that in it self should be reason enough. Virtually any fish that isn't a predator helps provide a balance for the predatory fish, especially in the winter and early spring.

I have brought up the idea of a roving group of agents before, and I think eliminating those giggers that don't really care about the sport, but the chance to easily kill some fish. This would help not only all fishermen the traditional giggers also. I think a force of agents numbering 4-6 that could be called in to any area by the resident agent would put the fear into many violators of any regulations. The fear factor would fit in with the commissions desire to avoid ticketing violators and maybe allow them to add some regulations. These could be new, young agents available to fill retirements or leaves who would gain valuable experience. Some could be Highway patrol candidates. Forsythian I know you feel some of this is overkill, but I've known giggers for a long, long time and the new developments have brought in a lot of people who see it as an easy way to kill fish, not as a sport. I think if they simply limited lumens it would help a lot, even if the amount allowed was superior to gas lanterns or Pine bolls. I know the thought is that brighter lights allow better identification, but it also increases the depth and brings more fish under the gig.