Phil Lilley

It's a lake- there's a dam at each end. Actually it was made a lake when they built Powersite. It's been Lake Taneycomo ever since. Above the lake, before Table Rock Dam was built, it was the White River, same as the White above Beaver Lake now.

Yes.

If Powersite was removed there would not be a Lake Taneycomo, only Bull Shoals. The muck would move downstream- not sure where it would end up. I would have to see the impact studies to know whether I'd be for or against. As far as the upper end, say from here to the dam, I would think it'd be pretty cool because this would become more of a river/stream like the White below Bull Shoals, till it hit the lake. Again, you'd have to increase the flow, minimum flow, from Table Rock to water the upper end. I seriously doubt if this will ever happen- and no, it has never been discussed or considered, at least in public. Powersite Dam isn't that complicated. It's more of a spillway than a regular dam.

Mid MO TU is the lead conservation group on Blue Springs I believe. They've done a lot of work on the stream and have had a prominent part of it's management. Mike Kruse, a fisheries biologist for MDC, is a long time member of that TU chapter and is a good advocate for that stream along with Spence Turner. We have a regional meeting coming up soon. I'll inquire as to any plans for Blue Springs.

They've been running a half all day so it's back up here. Not sure if it was enough to bring it up down there...

Growing up, my state (Kansas) didn't stock anything I hunted to fished for and I consider my upbringing in a rural area. That was 40ish years ago - and things have changed a bit. But I don't think the opportunities rural kids have as far as access to creeks, ponds and fields not touched by any state agency. That was my thinking when I asked the question. For city kids to have an opportunity to fish in the city, I think it's beneficial.

Who says they do - or don't? What do they miss out on?

Was referring more to adding fishing possibilities in areas where there's more people - urban.

Too old meaning falling apart - they take it out. Flood? We've already had a 500-year flood (2011). What could be worse?

More bang for the buck?

Very little generation has occurred this past week here on Lake Taneycomo. Not even a little "fish water" in the evenings which we usually see this time of year. I'm sure at some time they'll release a little water from Table Rock but until winter and cold temps set in, it will only be a small amount, I'd say. Empire Electric, owner and operator of Powersite Dam, which is the dam at the lower end of Taneycomo, regulates the level of our lake by releasing, or not releasing, water from their units. When they release water while Table Rock Dam does not, that drops our lake level to lower-than-normal levels. In the upper lake, like the trophy area, it's very noticeable and creates challenges to boaters wanting to travel above Fall Creek. The lake level of Taneycomo right now is about 12 inches lower than normal and it will stay at that level until water is released from Table Rock. This has made some interesting fly fishing possibilities above Fall Creek. Living in our gravel are freshwater shrimp and sow bugs. They crawl and swim is and around the rocks on the bottom but when the lake level drops, they are forced to move out with the water creating a crowd of bugs along the edge of the water. On the flats above Fall Creek, as much as 40 feet of gravel is exposed because of the drop of water levels so that's a lot of displaced bugs. Our trout key in on this crowd of bugs and you'll see them feeding in as little as a few inches of water right now. I got out and fished the last couple of days with some friends from Kansas. We boated to the Narrows and fishing the flat by getting out of the boat and wading this whole area. Of course the best luck was in scuds, #12's and #14 gray, weighted, fishing them on the bottom and working them so that they look like they're swimming across the bottom. We also waded up above the Narrows, getting out and fishing from way above the tennis courts to below the wash from the golf course. I had fun targeting rainbows who were up on the flats in less than 6 inches of water, cruising around looking for bugs. I caught them on both a scud and stripping or skimming a #16 yellow soft hackle on the surface. The last couple of days it's been windy and where we were fishing, there was a good chop on the water. I notice the trout were moving around constantly- in and out of deep water and up and down the bank in front of us. You don't see fish moving like this when there's not wind, glass surface. They just sit there or move slowly around when the lake is still. The benefits of wind was very apparent to us -- they were biting very aggressively!! We caught mainly rainbows on scuds, either single flies or running tandems 18 inches apart, setting the float so that the flies were on the bottom. I instructed them not to just wade out to the waste and start casting as far as you could -- but to work out slow and fish for those fish in 12 inches of water first. They will eat just as good as those in deep water--may be even better! Also, don't think you need to cast so far out. Keep the indicator close enough to see a soft bite. Sometimes all the float does is vibrate. We also caught fish on the soft hackles and zebras. One gentleman stood in one place and caught over a dozen rainbows fishing an orange micro jig he had tied and a red #18 zebra under a float fishing it 4 feet deep. No need to move when the trout were coming to you! I also got out and fished with Flip Putthoff, an outdoor writer from the Fayetteville area. We started early on Thursday morning, boating up to the trophy area all the way to Lookout. We tried a variety of flies and while everything worked, each fly or technique only caught one or two fish. It was slow. They were rising a little bit so I tied on a small #18 Elk Hair Caddis and with it Flip caught his first trout on a dry fly! But it was the only take. It was pretty cool though... the rainbow came up and pushed the fly with his nose first. I instructed Flip not to move it--wait--wait, then the rainbow slowly came up and ate it. It was fun to watch. We finally worked our way down below the Narrows and started fishing scuds along the east bank where we say trout feeding close to the bank. Again, they were feeding on bugs in shallow water. We'd cast the fly or flies within a foot of the bank and drag them out slowly. We could see the wakes of the trout rushing over to inspect the movement and then the indicator would move. When setting the hook, out of the shallow water the rainbow would bust like it had been shot out of a canon. Some of these rainbows pushed 18 inches! We ended the morning with 40+ rainbows and Flip had a good story to go home to write. And some good fish pics too. Here's a short video Ryan and I did this afternoon to show the difference between scuds (freshwater shrimp) and sow bugs. The scuds shoot back down to the bottom after being kicked up while the sow bugs just float, legs out, screaming for help! Quite a few brown trout being caught up at the outlets below the dam, mostly on scuds and sow bugs. The only problem is most of the best fishing is right in the outlets, #1 and #2, plus there's some good fish in and below the Rebar chute. If there's a chop on the water, stripping a soft hackle or crackleback should produce good strikes fishing the flat areas at and below the Big Hole down to the boat ramp. Fishing at night below the dam is still producing some good browns and rainbows. Stripping streamers as well as casting floating stick baits will produce some great trophy trout fishing. Bait fishing has been pretty good too, below Fall Creek. Even fishing off our dock has been good. Yellow power eggs in the garlic scent has been the best -- really anything with a garlic scent has been great. We've even thought about adding garlic scent to our night crawler containers!! Jig and float is doing good, fishing a micro jig, olive or black, under an indicator 3 to 6 feet deep. Also marabou jig, brown/orange head or sculpin, same depth. I'd suggest using 2-pound line/tippet for best results. I wrote an article a little over a year ago that would be good to review. Look Under the Leaves is about finding trout feeding under the leaves, along with bugs, that have fallen to the surface.

Thanks. I understand now. Anything to spur on interest in fishing- any kind of fishing- I think is a good thing. The biggest crappie of my life came from a round "tank" in southern Oklahoma not more than 70 feet across. Did it spur on my interest in catching fish as a young kids? Sure did!

I'm about to write a fishing report. I'll take about the low water in it.

Moving this to Taneycomo forum Empire drew too much water out on Wednesday and again on Thursday while Table Rock didn't run any water. It's happened before but usually TR runs water at least some during the day to fill it back up. I noticed yesterday it was up a little in the trophy area but still low. As far as being "fast", are you talking about below the dam? It would be quicker to run out because the pool below, say rebar, would be lower. I called and the level was at 701.5 which is about 8 inches low. That's a lot for up there...

Just to clarify... you did talk about the difference between wild and stocked trout and how you feel about it - you say criticize, but you called people hypocrites that spend money on Orvis equipment and fish for non-native trout. So you're not only criticizing the brand of trout fishing, you're also criticizing those people who fish that way. Or am I missing something? This thread is a little hard to understand. I frankly don't understand your reasoning but you're entitled to your opinion, as long as you're respectful expressing it. I've been blessed to fish for wild fish in many parts of the world, and I've fished for stocked trout here and other parts of the Midwest. There is a difference in my personal satisfaction fish for and catching wild trout but fishing for and catching non-native trout, that satisfaction doesn't follow too far behind. Just trying to understand your position clearly...

Interesting question. Powersite is the oldest dam built west of the Mississippi, finished in 1913. At what point is Powersite deemed too old to stand and is taken out? There would have to be more flow from the dam (minimum flow) or the upper end would be nothing but pools of stagnate water. Stripers and other warm water species would move up in the upper end of the lake at times and trout would be targeted by stripers but if MDC would take this into consideration and stock enough to keep the stripers and anglers happy, it'd be pretty cool! But that's a big IF. Not sure they could stock enough. And then when trout fishing is bad, everyone will blame the stripers - like they do when crappie fishing is bad on striper lakes.

Good post, Brian. CALL me next time you go fishing...

By John Neporadny Jr. Bluffs and docks could be a winning combination for Lake of the Ozarks anglers this autumn. “I would start in the morning and hit as many bluff end docks as I could because those big fish will come up and suspend under those docks in the fall,” says James Dill of James Dill Guide Service and owner of Crock-O-Gator Bait Company. “I have caught a lot of big fish on an isolated dock that other people just blow by.” Quality bass that usually hang along the bluff drops during the summer start suspending when the shad move to the surface in the fall. The bass suspend under the bluff-end docks sitting over depths of more than 50 feet and use the boathouses as ambush points to pick off shad. Dill notes this pattern works best when the water temperature drops into the 70-degree range from mid-September to November. The local guide tempts these suspending bass with a black 3/4-ounce Crock-O-Gator Headknocker Buzz Bait with a gold blade which he retrieves on 17-pound fluorocarbon line along the sides of the dock all the way to the front ends. “I wil start out reeling it pretty fast and then I will slow it down until I catch a couple,” says Dill. “You may hit a bunch of docks and not catch too many but sooner or later when you do catch a fish doing that it is going to be a good one.” Most of the strikes occur on the front corners of the docks although Dill occasionally catches some fish midway down the sides of the docks. The bluff pattern works for Dill on the whole lake, but when he’s fishing the lower end he usually throws a Zara Spook on 14-pound monofilament around the docks in the clearer water. Dill advises any angler practicing for a tournament should run the lake and search a 15-mile stretch for isolated docks on the bluff ends. “See how many of those docks you can find in a certain area,” says Dill, who warns anglers to avoid fishing those docks during practice. Another main lake pattern that produces quality fish for Dill in early October involves stair-stepping a jig down bluff shelves, a structure that big bass live on year-round. Dill opts for a 3/4-ounce Crock-O-Gator Reaction Jig or a 1-ounce football jig in dark colors (brown, green or black-and-blue) tipped with a bulky plastic trailer in the same color. He keys on shelves in the 15- to 18-foot depth range where he pops the jig off a shelf and lets it fall quickly to the next shelf. The local guide repeats the process until the lure drops off into the channel. Dill likes to make a milk run of bluff docks before 10 a.m. and makes about five to eight casts per dock. Once the sun rises higher in the sky and starts casting shadows around the docks, Dill moves to the back of creeks and coves to target shallow docks. “If it is quiet and nobody has been back there you can catch big fish out of a foot of water,” says Dill. The buzz bait still produces later in the day for Dill if he throws it to the shady areas of the docks. Then he likes to flip the buzzer into the wells where the lure’s buzzing sound echoes off the boat hoists. “It sends a whole different sound in there especially on those shallow docks,” reveals Dill. “When you flip all the way to the back and you bring that buzz bait and it is echoing through there, if there is a fish within 50 yards he is coming to eat that thing.” Swimming a jig along the sides and in the wells of shallow docks also produces heavyweight bass for Dill in early October. Dill advises looking for bluegill keeping a safe distance from the docks. “If you are pitching those docks and there are bluegill that are 4 feet out looking into those dock corners there is a big fish there,” says Dill. Bass can be found just about anywhere under a shallow dock, but the bigger fish tend to hide in hard-to-reach areas such as the walkways behind the dock cables and those small cracks in the flotation. “You have to hit those spots where nobody else has hit,” says Dill. For information on lodging and other facilities at the Lake of the Ozarks or to receive a free vacation guide, call the Lake of the Ozarks Convention & Visitors Bureau at 1-800-FUN-LAKE or visit the Lake of the Ozarks Convention and Visitors Bureau web site at funlake.com. Copies of John Neporadny's book, "THE Lake of the Ozarks Fishing Guide" are available by calling 573/365-4296 or visiting the web site www.jnoutdoors.com.

Found myself wanting someone to hit one out just to shut the commentators up!!! That would have been great if Gordon was faster and came around to score on that hit to the wall...

Studies show that 20% of bait hooked fish die while only 5% of artificial bait hooked fish die. That's the reason MDC and other states have this rule in catch and release areas. It wouldn't make sense to allow anglers to kill that many fish in an area where the goal is to grow fish bigger. As for ticketing anyone- if you break the law, you should pay the consequence. Yes there is grace- that's up to the agent and judge. But if you give grace to everyone - tourist - whoever, then why have rules? Why have a "trophy area"? Truth be told, our agents let more ppl off for violations than we think, I believe. Don't know for fact... just what I hear from ppl who have been stopped, checked and not ticketed for a violation they were not aware of. They're in the PR business too. Thankfully, this fall season our water quality is very good. O2 levels are much better than normal and water temperature is still in the 40's. That means big fish survive long fights better, at least this year. Yes Taney is stocked with trout but they're stocked at an average length of 11.5 inches. The 13-19 inch rainbows you'll catch below the dam have been in the lake for a long time - some over a year. You catch and kill those fish and you really can't say, "well they'll just stock some more trout". Yes they will but you're starting from scratch basically, having to grow them up again. It hurts the trophy area to have a trophy rainbow caught and killed before it reaches that 20-inch mark, especially when someone takes a 4-fish limit out and they're all 15-inch-plus trout. I've always promoted education and helping those who have trouble catching trout no matter where they're fishing on the lake. I'll approach anyone who is fishing bait in the trophy area, as a friendly courtesy, but I will not hesitate to call the hatchery and/or an agent if I see continued or blatant violations of the law. My motivation is 2-fold. I want to see big trout in the lake for all to enjoy plus, obviously, I have a financial stake in it. My business mostly depends on this fishery being the best it can be.

Good friends of ours from Oklahoma treated us to a trip to their vacation home on Spring Creek, a tributary of the Taylor and Gunnison Rivers, north of Gunnison, Colorado. John and Valery Johnson owned a log cabin in a tight-knit community on the Spring River for quite a few years. They recently upgraded with other extended family to a larger cabin to accommodate their growing family, adding three grandsons in the last few years. They spend as much time as work allows, although the 11-hour drive makes it a challenge to get away. We arrived Saturday night and started the day Sunday morning, trailering John's 4-wheelers to an access and running up to the upper section on Brush Creek. It was about a 30-minute ride. Most of the creek was not fishable -- too brushy and steep. But we tried a flat meadow where the creek was perfect and found quite a few cuts and browns, catching most of them on a parachute adams. Last 2 images are of a couple of trout I caught. First is a small brown trout and the next is a pretty cutthroat, both took a parachute adams. The trail up to the high country was tough even for our all-terrain vehicles, I thought, but as we were fishing, a white truck came down the same trail! Not really an off-road truck, but just a nice looking Chevy like you'd see on the highway. I wondered how in the world the driver would makes those turns, dips and maneuvers over those big rocks he had to get around?! I guess he made it because we didn't see him high-centered or stuck on the way back down. Monday morning, we headed out early to the catch-and-release area below Taylor Reservoir. I fished this water years ago during the summer. I remember throwing everything I had at the fish with little results. This time we garnered almost the same results. There were lots of nice trout milling around, taking real small insects coming off the water. I caught a couple of browns stripping a soft hackle. Did I say it was cold? The low 30's temperature and a breeze kept our hands numb. John had a real treat planned for us in the afternoon. John and Valerie, Randy and Linda (John's friends from home and neighbors there on Spring Creek) and Marsha and I took four-wheelers up to a peak called American Flag. From their place on Spring Creek, it took us about three hours to make the run. That's a long time on rough four-wheeler trails. We took two Razers and two Polaris vehicles. We traveled through mountain sagebrush meadows in fall colors and woods of tall fir and pine trees, along side small creeks -- and ventured near deep cuts that cascaded down hundreds of feet, sometimes dropping off only inches from the side of our vehicle. Most aspen trees had lost their bright yellow leaves -- but the ones left glowed against the dark green firs. Even the softwood trees that were bare had a translucent glow about them as they dotted in clumps against the vast mountain sides. Spring Creek Reservoir. The trail... As we reached the higher elevations where the snow had fallen, it was as as if God had taken His paint and highlighted the rocky slopes, making the dark areas darker. It was a masterpiece no man could have brushed. The last climb was interesting -- a 30-degree, half-mile run over snow drifts and loose rock. Our Razer had a hard time in the snow drifts, even in four-wheel drive, but we made it. We have never done anything like that before, and we came away wanting to do it again! The view was awesome -- and I don't use that word very often. We did see quite a few elk hunters but no animals. They said it had been too warm to group them up. Tuesday, John and I hit some of his favorite spots. First, it was up the road on the Taylor River at Cold Springs access. John said this spot gets hit hard during the season because of its easy access off the road, but we still found the trout agreeable. I had been doing well on soft hackles, copper johns and parachute adams, so that's what I tied on. They fish didn't like the dry very well, but the Green Butt soft hackle they did! I caught six brown trout right off, then caught the trout of the trip -- 15-inch brookie. John didn't believe me when I told him, so he came over to verify. Even then, he wasn't sure. . . I was. I knew brooks' looks could vary, and the black with yellow spots of this one was more rare. But John had never heard of a brook caught on the Taylor. Next we hit the mouth of the Taylor River above the lake -- and didn't see a fish. There was an angler fishing more out towards the lake using bait, and we did see him catch one. But nothing up in the river, so we didn't spend much time there with other places to go. We drove up to another one of John's favorite spots, Italian Creek. I barely had enough rooms to walk and cast my 3-weight since this creek was small with tight water and not much of it. I could see the small trout dart up and into their holes along the bank before I had a chance to even cast. I finally found one stretch where I could get my adams over non spooked trout and caught one rainbow. That was my afternoon. Italian Creek Wednesday we fished some private water on the Taylor. John assured me that the trout would be big and plentiful. And, yes, we could see there were both, but fooling them was another thing. None of the normal patterns worked. I guess their browns were starting to drop eggs, so John fished a bead. I found they liked to chase a soft hackle (again) and as long as I fished fairly flat water, it worked! John let me fish an extra hour while he returned to start winterizing the cabin. I found a good stretch and caught six browns and then my biggest trout of the trip -- about a 20-inch, beautiful rainbow on my last catch. Wildlife on the trip - antelope and buffalo on the way out, mule deer and big horn sheep. All the rivers and creeks were very low, and this was the latest in the fall John had ever fished. That's what we blamed not seeing any fish in places where John had always done well. Just to experience this beautiful area in the autumn and fish these waters was a real treat. Catching a few fish was a bonus. Yes, I'm smiling...

Take a pic of the boat - esp the boat you think were guides - and post it here. Also if you're at the dam, you can go to the hatchery, if open, and tell them. Take it with your cell phone. If you don't have a camera, note the descrip of the boat(s) and details about the person who you think is a guide. nothing else, call me at 417.337.4130 and I'll call the agent. I would really like to know if guides are using bait or keeping fish.

Are you guys seriously getting into it about baseball??!?!?

First time poster.... featured on OA's main site. Thanks!