Mark

Great to hear Brian. I hope to make it down this weekend for some fishing and much needed R&R

It will take efforts like Al's and others with evidence such a pictures and being able to point the MCD agents to specific areas to watch. I agree that game wardens are spread too thin. They need a good idea of where and when to concentrate their efforts. The idea of neighborhood watch programs, giggers monitoring other giggers, and proactive measures such as reporting suspicious activity must be a tool for law enforcement. We are not going to stop giggers anymore than we are going to stop deer poachers, fish poachers, or any other wildlife poaching. But when someone is caught, they should have the book thrown at them.

Let's try thinking of solutions. If there is extensive poaching by giggers on the Meramec or other identifiable rivers that are known as being the illegal sites for poaching, contact MDC officers. Maybe a sting operation could be set up. Maybe local residents near access areas could notify MDC game wardens when they see gigging boats putting in. Even if the giggers were legal when checked, at least word would get out to beware, game wardens are keeping an eye on the situations.

OUCH - the truth hurts!!!

There was an article recently in the Missouri Conservationist magazine about the Ozarks tradition of gigging for suckers and buffalo. The article talked about the tradition of several men getting together and catching enough fish for friends and relatives to have a big fish fry. I have mixed feelings on gigging fish. I don't see it as much of a sport (but, then again, I don't see much of a sport sitting in a stand in the trees in the woods waiting for a deer to wander along. I call it "deer waiting".) And I don't buy the "tradition" thing - there were lots of dumb unethical traditions from the old days - that doesn't make them right. I understand that probably the majority of people who gig are ethical hunters (can't really call the sport "fishing"). But then why don't we allow nets strung across rivers, or better yet, dynamite! (Being facetious, no need to respond.) I have a feeling that pole and line fishermen are doing more poaching than giggers. I don't know of anyone that gigs suckers and buffalo here in eastern MO. If we are keeping this "tradition" alive for a couple hundred people that are ethical, but it leads to poaching by as many people that this thread indicates, maybe it is time for this tradition to die off. I guess I am most curious as to how many people still actually get out in the rivers and gig during the season. Maybe a special "gigging license" for a couple of dollars would help eliminate some of the poaching? What's a couple dollars for someone taking tens of pounds of fish out of our streams. Yet, I do think frog gigging is a sport. I guess I am as wishy washy as a Presidential candidate on this one. Just my thoughts......

Hope all is well around the Alton area! Sounds like pretty scary stuff in SW MO.

Thanks all for replies. Al, glad to hear your thoughts on Yellowstone. Very pricey for not such a great experience. Having stayed in a cabin near the Chief Joseph Scenic Byway and Beartooth Scenic Byway, I could certainly attest to the beauty. But it's a long way to go and I'm now leaning towards Grand Lake. I would like to correspond more with bferg and Colorado Bassmaster and will send you a PM.

A friend and I are throwing around the idea of heading to the Rockies for a snowmobile vacation. We tossed around doing a Yellowstone Guided Tour (may be cost and time prohibitive) or possibly going to Grand Lake, CO. Neither of us have ever even been on a snowmobile, but it just sounds like a great way to see the mountains in the winter. If anyone has experience and would be willing, I would be eager seek advice and suggestions on planning a trip.

I always heard it was a east - west thing for the pronunciation of Missouri. On the east side of the state, it's Missouree, on the west side it's Missourah. No one I know says Missourah.

I sent an email to the US Forest Service at Doniphan and received a timely reply. All glass containers are banned on the Wild and Scenic Riverways. The only exception on the Eleven Point is the Greer Campground picnic area and The Riverton picnic area. For those of you that have a taste for the craft beers, I second the selections at Crown Brewery, Coffman MO, (near Farmington). I have never been "one of those guys" when it comes to beers, but I am hooked. My favorites include Antique Amber Lager, Big Bison, Plow Boy Porter, and Wooden Nickel IPA. I jumped off the Bud Light bandwagon after the sale of the Cardinals from the Busch family and the sale of the brewery to InBev. I no longer have an allegience to the Busch Brewery. And the craft beers just taste better - though more calories!!

I believe these two guys have had a few Moose Drools in their time!!

Thanks Brian, you got us the final word from the US Forest Service. The confusion may be exactly what Ozarkgunner stated - the Missouri statute is different from the US Forest Service regulations and the USFS would supercede the Missouri statute on the National Ozark Scenic Riverways including the Eleven Point River. SO NO GLASS ON THE ELEVEN POINT RIVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!! Sorry Snap, this Moose Drool for Brian and me is on you. Don't you hate it when I'm right!! Moose Drool is a craft beer popular out West and making it's way into Missouri. Moose Drool is brewed by Big Sky Brewery in Missoula, Montana and is a full bodied stout brown ale with a hint of brown sugar, caramel, and malt. In other words, strong beer that will have you buzzing after 2 or 3!

Brian, After reading the specific law a quoted by Ozarkgunner, are you still of the same opinion that the glass ban is in effect under all circumstances. Now I am confused.

(2) "Vessel", any canoe, kayak, or other watercraft which is easily susceptible to swamping, tipping, or rolling, but does not include any houseboat, party barge, runabout, ski boat, bass boat, excursion gambling boat as defined in section 313.800, or similar watercraft not easily susceptible to swamping, tipping, or rolling. Thanks Ozarkgunner. IS SNAP RIGHT?? DOES A RIVERBOAT QUALIFY AS A BASS BOAT OR SIMILAR WATERCRAFT NOT EASILY SUSCEPTIBLE TO SWAMPING, TIPPING, OR ROLLING? Don't you just love the way laws are written!!

My guess would be that Brian knows the law as well as anyone. Snappy, prove us wrong or buck up on a Moose Drool.

For Brian or anyone else, My Eleven Point comrade Snap and I have had this discussion several times and would like to know if anyone is absolutely positively 100% sure of the law. Weboth agree Brian would know the law and will abide by his ruling. We have a nice cold Moose Drool draft wagered. I say no glass containers are allowed under any circumstances on the Eleven Point River. My equally confident friend Snap says that the no glass containers only applies to canoes, kayaks, and tubes - vessels that are in danger of being turned over in the river. He has a riverboat w/jet prop and says that he is perfectly legal to have glass in his riverboat, and we are perfectly legal having glass containers at our campsite as long as the glass was hauled in by riverboat. Please, no ethical, environmental lectures - we are 100% careful conservation minded adults and leave no trace behind campers. Just like to know that we cannot be fined for our favorite libations carried in a bottle to our campsite on a gravel bar if carried by riverboat. Thanks, Mark

I don't think anyone is being facetious. I would like to know for sure if I am legal in tennis shoes that may have mesh on the side or tongue of the shoe. I'm guessing the mesh anywhere on the shoe could carry didymo just as easily as a felt sole. But then I'm not an aquatic biologists. IF they are only interested in banning FELT SOLE shoewear, great! But mesh would fit the description above as "footwear incorporating wooven fibrous material".

Learn something new every day. I didn't know Brewer and Shipley did a version of Black Sky. ALthough prolly not as good as me, One Sandal, and Snappy's version

Did Mary have to use any Wolk wrestling moves on the salesman? That's amazing about there not being any snow. Have you ever seen the lack of snow this time of year in Montana? Our stay 2 years ago at a place on the Chief Joseph Scenic Byway near Cooke City ranks up there with any place I've been.

Where exactly were you in Colorado? The more I read about the Gand Lake area, the more interesting it becomes. 300 miles of trails.

Has anyone ever been on a snowmobiling vacation to the Rockies?? Friends and I are discussing and would like some information based on personal experiences. We are mainly interested in Colorado since we would be driving and don't care to drive much farther than Colorado.

I figured as much Al. Skip and the boys seem to think it would be too much work. But always knew that Mary was tougher than most of my friends!!

DUH - yes it is neoprene

OK - I have new waders that have felt booties/socklets that go up about as high as work boots. I wear shoes over the felt booties/socklets, but there is a couple of inches of felt showing over the top of my shoes. Are my waders legal the way I wear them?? My friend tells me the new regs only apply to felt on the bottom of shoes.

So Al, as far as you know, the Saline is a navigable river??? I have been planning on doing it for a few years but can never talk any buddies into going with me. Especially in summer, they are concerned that it is too low and we would spend all day pulling our canoe through low water spots. I actually have a landowners permission further downstream from Minnith, but I would like to put in at second slab off Brushy Creek Road. Have you floated this section? I'm taking a gamble that no one else on here will know where we are talking about.