tjm

It would be the end of them, they would be over fish and either turn into put and take fisheries or simply depleted. If you know of such places, enjoy them and only share with others who have the gumption to look for and find them for themselves. I don't do much prospecting anymore, but in the '70s back east I had 20+ little "private" waters with native brookies. It is neither cheap (time+gas) nor easy to find these places unless you are covered in "dumb luck".

This seems to fit with fishinwrench's theory of forever migrant fish. They don't stay at the "dump" because it ain't home but they don't go home either.

So, if I am following your meaning, you think that MDC should use monies from all over the state and from hunters and fishermen who never see your lake to subsidize bass tournament fishing be cause you think it helps the local economy? MDC page; I read this several times and I see no reference to aiding the local economies of the state or of any lake region. Depletion of and subsequent restocking of a species, as you suggest is almost diametrically opposed to the meaning of conservation in MDC.

Can't answer the why, but I'm kinda glad it came up. It is educational in more than one way.

This would be of less concern, to me at least. if "keep or release immediately" was applied to tournaments the same as it is to real anglers. As it stands there is simply no limitation on numbers of fish handled-hauled-thrown away. If every fish released by tourney fishers died it would have little more affect than those same guys taking home a limit, if the limits applied. The tournament exception to the regulations makes these people above the law. And as posted earlier some of them think that applies outside of tournaments.

Been trying to follow this and maybe learn something, I'll have to think about that, maybe i have or haven't learned anything here a lot of the terms ar not familiar to me and I'm not a lake and boat angler, so.. Anyhow; back about forty years ago I did a summer test in a 12A clear spring fed pond/lake in the N.E., this included about 12-15 outings using live night crawlers fished near or on the bottom, I started with 6# & 4# on separate rods and worked the size leader down to what was labeled 3/4# and 1# tippet material always keeping one line heavier than the other. Repeated this on several outings then just started with 3# & 2# and went down. This was designed as a learning experience for myself more than to catch fish. the result was that no matter whether my lines were as heavy as 12# & 10# or as light as the 3/4#, laying those night crawlers down within 5' of each other the smaller line always without exception took the fish. The larger line only took fish if I reeled in the lighter offering. As a side note, I discovered that trout will take on 12# test if offered a fat live worm and nothing else to compare with. I came away with the belief that size can matter, where visibility is good or better. Make what you will of it. Now, over the years I decided that 6-8# mono gave me good castability and was plenty strong for up to 12# fish, 4# has the ability to cast way farther and to break off when hooked up to a rock or log without damage to the rest of the tackle or great loss of line; so my spinning rods carry 6# green mono for the most part. My questions are why so many of you rig different baits with heavier lines and do you ever expect to catch 30,40, 50# fish or is the some quality about the heavy lines that I'm not seeing? And if xx# is good in clear water why change to heavier lines in murky water?

I have read that bass don't often travel more than about a mile and that they don't usually cross deep water, true?maybe?; at any rate homing device or not and say they could go a bit farther, disorientation of being slapped around and plunged into a live well then battered as the boat speeds up and down and to and fro and at release time there is no way that a fish brain is even going to have any inkling of home's location. I really don't see much upside to this kind of release, if the fish do survive, the release area will be so overstocked that feed resources will be stressed or exhausted. Just thinking here today, my guess is many of these fish die weeks later or starve to point of near death. Spend any time around a trout park during the C&R season and you will get an idea of what C&R mortality can be even if "released immediately unharmed". I believe that the parks are restocked a couple times a month during the C&R just to maintain fishing numbers. Who is monitoring or restocking the lake bass?

I bet they ain't going 15 miles to home, but just how far are black bass capable of returning home?

My statement that I'm not opposed to tournament fishing is under a little strain here. Largely I am opposed to manmade lakes and consider them environmentally destructive, however in the interest of lemonade, they provide a number of artificial fisheries. Since I have considered all these fisheries to be unnatural from the beginning and the lakes a waste of perfectly good rivers, it has never really bothered me for "bass fishermen" to have their tourneys anymore than it bothers me for drunks and druggies to have their parties at the lake. Sorta, I don't use it so they might as well attitude. I said I've never understood the fish tournament mind set, figured it was a tool compensation exercise. But comments on this board about the amounts of money being great enough to tempt "honest sportsmen" into fibbing or outright lying are causing me to rethink the whole tourney thing. What is the competition? If it is best fisherman, take the first three fish caught and go weigh in. The first three are indicative of skill at locating the target fish and of choosing the right bait and the right tackle for the conditions, as well as the skills in presentation needed to get the bigun first. Culling fish, 100 mph boats , a separate rod and reel set up for every color and every type of lure etc, is indicative that the competition may be more on who has the most money to spend and happens to luck out on a given day? So I still don't understand the reasons for tournaments, but the fact that participants are admittedly dishonest enough that they think transport and weigh in necessary to prevent cheating and possibly unintelligent enough to think relocation on a more or less regular basis is of no consequence to the fishery is cause for me to think this over again.

74 x 10 months a year 740 on a single lake? 5 fish kept? and unknown, unlimited numbers in each tourney released after transport in the culling process? And there are people who say this has no affect on the fishery? Do they actually believe what they are saying? Or is this more indication of degrees of honesty?

It may be different in different stores as well, the only Cabela's I've ever seen is the Rogers store. Tiny bar codes on tiny flies looks silly, no doubt, I didn't know they were hard to scan. I imagine the loose fly inventory is hard to track in such large open store, 15-20 times I've wandered around that store since they opened it and I have never seen an employee working the fly department. Guess the apparent disregard of the area plus the poor lighting added to my astonishment at the variety of materials and tools on show. I noticed they did not have a great selection of hackle, but they did have enough to keep an average dyi tyer going. I had to do a search on the "bugger packs" ; always bought necks or saddles, thought maybe this was loose or strung feathers, so I would not have known they should have them. Cabela's is more of a window shopping place for me, I still have a gift card from Christmas to spend there and have yet to see anything that just says "take me now", Things I want from the catalog are never in the store, so its always kinda disappointing to go there expecting to buy something, but if I go just to see it is a pleasant visit. Oh, and yes, support your local fly shop; Tim has got about all my actual fishing/tying money ever since he left the RR Lodge and started on his own. Anything the independent shops don't have they will normally get if you ask.

(A) Any species taken into actual posses- sion, unless released unharmed immediately after being caught, shall continue to be included in the daily limit of the taker for the day when taken except as authorized in sub- section (3)(E) of this rule. This says that only in a bonafide tournament can fish be culled, so what kind of sportsman does this daily or encourages it?

Maybe referring to this regulation; 3 CSR 10-6.405 -3(E) During the months of September through June, black bass released unharmed by participants in a bona fide catch-and-release fishing tournament, which requires entrants to have a boat livewell with adequate capacity and a pump constantly adding fresh or recirculating water, shall not be included in the daily limit, however, at no time may the daily limit be exceeded. However that would be June 30 end.

Point that out in the regulations please?

Ketchup, Can you explain to me why you are 100% pro-tourney? I'm not against tourney fishing, but why are tourney fishers exempt from state wide regulations? What is the benefit to average Joe of having our fish hauled around and possibly destroyed, with no limits?

I guess one could take several pictures of the fish from different angles or with different background and include them with slightly varying weights or lengths also?

I was just asking. I have never understood the fish tournaments. If we allow that all tournament participants are honest and beyond cheating, why not just take their word for what they caught and eliminate the need for pictures or weigh in? I think almost anything would be better for the fishery than sorting, culling and live hauling the fish all day. But..?

Wouldn't that require a judge of some sort in every boat?

Funny, I was just walking around Cabela's fly section last evening and thinking I was surprised at all the stuff they did have. Most of it stuff that I would rarely need, but a feller could sure tie a bunch of patterns with what they have. They did not have any CGR rods though and I wanted to fondle one of those.

What is the solution/better way?

I think my grand dad was near 60 yo when they stocked deer in this county, he certainly considered them a mistake on MDC's part, and I recall when they were scarce enough to be reported on the store porch. I said "in a way" the habitat MDC stocked with deer was nothing like the habitat that once supported elk and bison here. The deer stocked were foreign to this area, I don't know where they came from. We've had carp in this county longer than deer.

BilletHead , the grad student that held the deer for a study he was doing (on feed?)wrote of the happenings a long time ago, its probably on the net some where.

In away deer are an invasive, my older brothers could remember the release of the first deer in this area and now they are most as numerous as squirrels, I see way more deer than rabbits or snakes or coyotes. Really hard to make a judgement of whether restoration of species or even habitat is going to be good or bad until after the fact. As humans we have altered the planet to the extent that we live in an essentially contrived or alien place. Wild things and places have taken on an amusement park aura. Wildlife and wild fish no longer have intrinsic value as survival needs.

Scrapie infected sheep kept in the same pen with deer that were later released to wild again with CWD? Guess by strictest definition not man made but it did not happen in nature. I really think it is antlers more than venison with the money people. Rules and laws about interstate movement has never deterred the transport of exotic animals why would it stop captive deer being smuggled around? We are always going to have the CWD or the threat of it, until research develops a remedy. I heard a tale of three herds of goats getting sick and the remnants of all three herds being shipped to meat markets on yonder coasts. The symptoms were of scrapie and I saw deer in that immediate vicinity with like symptoms, no reports made of the goats and I had no samples of the deer, so that area remains "clean".

Well, I was thinking Medalist and Feralite .... Rebates are good I guess, but they always give the idea that the MSRP is too high to begin with. And yeah, I think you have buy both t qualify; but, I bet they sell some of each to folks that misread the offer.