Brian Jones

Mitch: That was more/less what I was told by an MDC biologist and verified by a conservation agent. I should've added quotation marks so that you would've known those weren't my words. I KNOW you guys aren't making this stuff up. I've seen the evidence myself.

I attended the open house at Farmington. IMO, the meeting appeared to be rather poorly attended. But I had my back to the door for most of the evening so there may have been more people pass through than I thought. Initially, I left the meeting feeling pretty good about things. However after I spent some time pondering what I was told, as well as talking to a buddy who attended the meeting at Powder Valley, I am leaning towards Joe, Wrench, and smallies opinions in regards to these meetings. I WILL give the MDC the benefit of the doubt though until I see the final changes if in fact there are any........ Below are the praises/concerns I shared at the meeting and the responses I was given. 1. Expanding TSA on Big River to Council Bluff: Thanked the MDC for proposing this. Shared with them about how stopping the TSA at Leadwood put a lot of catch and keep pressure on the upper most part of the river. The biologist who is responsible for upper Big River agreed and admitted that they have only recently realized what a tremendous fishery the upper section is and could be in the future. 2. Changing the length and creel limits on stream bass statewide to something other than 12"/6 fish rule: Would make little difference according to the MDC as most fishermen already practice catch and release................ 3. Protection for the smallmouth bass that winter in upper Clearwater Lake: Shared concerns that since Clearwater has no minimum length limit these fish were potentially vulnerable. MDC seemed to be of the opinion that protection is not needed since very few anglers fish during the winter months and the ones who do are not keeping these fish. In fact, I was told by the Conservation Agent who works that area that of the people he has checked during the winter months, none have ever kept any bass.... 4. Expanding the Meramec TSA down to Onondaga Cave: The MDC biologist that I was speaking with doesn't work the Meramec and suggested I contact the biologist in charge of the Meramec. 5. Spotted bass problem on the middle and lower Gasconade: Again, the biologist I was talking to had little knowledge of the Gasconade. I did share with him the pic of the meanmouth that I recently caught and he confirmed that's what it was. He told me that interbreeding occurs when the Spotted Bass are first colonizing and seems to taper off after they get established. He referred me to a biologist from the Lebanon office who was at the meeting and I talked to him for quite a while. I shared with him my concerns about the growing number of spots on the Gasconade below Jerome and how I am afraid that they could become as big of a problem on that river as they have in the Meramec watershed. He didn't seem too concerned but told me that they would be looking into it. He shared with me that his shockings on the upper river (nearly 80 to 100 miles upstream from where I am catching them) are not turning up any spots. I politely replied that if they wait until then to do something about them that it will be FAR too late on the lower river. I also referenced how just because there are very few spots in the Upper Meramec as compared to the lower doesn't mean that the lower part of the river doesn't have a problem. He really didn't have a reply. 6. Keeping the 18 inch MLL on the Gasconade from Riddle Bridge to Jerome: This was one of the most bizarre answers that I have ever been given. According to a biologist from the Lebanon office, the 18 inch MLL causes the MDC to receive a ton of complaints from anglers who fish this section of river and don't catch an 18 incher. It seems that there is some preconceived notion by anglers that fishing this section of river automatically guarantees that anglers will catch an 18 inch or bigger smallmouth. When this doesn't happen, they call the local MDC office and raise ten kinds of hades. Dropping the MLL to 15 inches will give anglers a better chance of catching a "trophy" and therefore end a lot of complaints they are currently getting from disgruntled anglers who are apparently fishing these trophy waters unsuccessfully............... 7. Illegal gigging problem: This is all in our heads. Giggers don't specifically target game fish and in fact foul hooked fish caught by law abiding anglers during the summer months have more impact on stream bass mortality than giggers........................ Sure there are some game fish that get accidentally stuck and shaken off a fork, but there really isn't much the MDC can do about that................................................ 8. Lack of enforcement of codes and lack of Law Enforcement presence: I didn't bring this topic up at the Farmington meeting but a buddy of mine specifically asked a rather proud Conservation Agent at Powder Valley why he never sees any game wardens on the river anymore. The agent responded that just because we can't see them doesn't mean that they're not there.......To that, my buddy responded, "So by watching me from the woods you are able to know whether I have a valid fishing permit and that I do not have any illegal fish in my livewell?" The conservation Agent had no answer. My buddy also brought up the gigging problem. The Conservation Agent threw out the deer season excuse. I understand that they have their hands full during this time. But in reality, a MAJORITY of their calls during deer season come during the 11 day firearms season. Gigging season is three months............... Personally, in 25 years of having to purchase hunting and fishing licenses, I have only been checked three times. Once in 1995 on Mineral Fork as we were floating by the Hwy 47 bridge. Once Labor Day weekend 2001 on the Meramec just up from Meramec State Park. The Conservation Agent was actually in a jet boat and was patrolling the river. The last time I was checked was in April 2007 on the Gasconade at the MDC Jerome Access as my wife and I were taking out.

Any updates from last night's meeting in Van Buren??

Here are some pics so that you can compare side by side. The first is the fish that I caught from the Gasconade yesterday and posted in my original post. The second is a smallmouth/spot cross that was caught in the Meramec in December of 2012. The third is a smallmouth caught from the Gasconade in July of 2012. Though I realize the lighting is different in each pic, you can definitely see a difference in the color and the side markings between a hybrid and a smallmouth.

The "bars" running down the side of the fish are more definitive than they would be on a smallmouth. Also, the fish is more of an olive green color than brown. This fish also had the rough patch on it's tongue that is common with spots. But that is not a foolproof means of identification. I was pretty sure that this fish was a hybrid before I ever landed it. If you've caught many smallmouth, or spots for that matter, I'd bet that you'd be able to tell the difference as well. I had caught a few smallies and spots today so their color and markings were fresh on my mind. Side by side, you can definitely see the difference.

Pretty sure it's a smallmouth/spot hybrid, but would like to hear some other opinions. What say y'all?? Caught it today out of one of my favorite rivers and one that according to a fisheries biologist from the MDC DOES NOT have a spotted bass problem.

I like the format. Should be interesting.

As most on here know, I have fished river tournaments on the Gasconade and a few on the Meramec for several years now. If more restrictive regulations aimed at improving the overall quality of smallmouth in our state's rivers have a negative effect on a few guys fishing river tournaments, then so be it. Contrary to what some of these tournament guys want to believe, it isn't the FLW or B.A.S.S and even the most successful river tournament anglers are still buying their own boats, gear, gas, etc., and hold down a "real" job to make their living. I'd love to see the MDC to get involved with some tagging/studies of tournament fish on the Gasconade and Meramec like they did a few years back on Current with the Current River Smallmouth Association. But for some reason, there currently seems to be a great divide between them and those hosting the tournaments. Back in June I had the opportunity to fish the Current. In the group I was fishing with was a guy from Birch Tree who is somewhat of a regional celebrity. I vividly remember him conversing with a couple of locals at the Doniphan ramp, and specifically telling them that the MDC would soon be stepping in with more restrictive regulations because they refused to change their smallmouth harvesting practices. So at least some people down in Current River country know what's coming and are supportive of it.

Joe's replies are, hands down, some of the best entertainment on the web. He has a good spirited niche for keeping everyone grounded and their egos in check; kinda like a high school football coach from yesteryear....

I gave the following suggestions: shortened gigging season and MUCH stricter enforcement. Also, suggested some sting operations and check points similar to those during the Spring Turkey season and Firearms deer season. some sort of protection for the smallmouth that winter in the upper part of Clearwater; especially since the lake has no minimum length on black bass. Drop the length and creel limits on Spotted Bass on the Gasconade River system. Whether or not they want to believe it, the spots are moving up the river in droves and it's only gonna be a matter of time before they are as big of a problem there as they are on the Meramec.

Glad to see my thinking is along the same lines as most. Personally, I would draw the line at Big River. But ONLY because I've never fished below there. Generally speaking I only fish below the Bourbeuse in the fall and winter and it is a completely different river (color wise) than it is in the spring and summer.

On line comment section is now set up on MDC website. JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. – Smallmouth bass and rock bass -- also called goggle eye -- are very popular with anglers on Missouri’s Ozark streams. However, research by the Missouri Department of Conservation (MDC) shows that both species grow slowly and that many do not reach a quality size before dying from natural causes or being caught by anglers. As a result, many anglers surveyed by MDC have reported that fishing quality for rock bass has declined over the past decade. Many anglers also have responded that the minimum-length limits and daily limits for smallmouth on rivers and creeks varies and can be complicated. According to MDC fishing regulations, there is no existing statewide minimum length limit for rock bass, but some rivers and creeks in MDC Special Management Areas have an eight-inch minimum. Smallmouth bass have a statewide minimum length limit of 12 inches with a six-fish daily limit, while MDC Special Management Areas have a minimum length limit of 15 or 18 inches with a daily limit of one or two fish. As a result of research and angler feedback, the Conservation Department is proposing changes to fishing regulations for these two popular game fish that would help grow smallmouth and rock bass while simplifying regulations for smallmouth in MDC Special Management Areas. For rock bass, MDC research shows that a majority of anglers favor a single, statewide minimum length limit. MDC is proposing setting it at seven inches. For smallmouth bass, the proposed changes would maintain the current statewide length limit of 12-inches with a daily limit of six fish, but change all Special Management Areas to a 15-inch minimum length limit with a daily limit of one smallmouth bass. Proposed regulations would also create a new Special Management Area on the Current River and expand the Special Management Areas on the Big Piney, Big River, Jacks Fork, and Meramec rivers. MDC is seeking public input on these potential regulations changes and will host a series of open houses around the state to provide more information, answer questions, and get public comments. The Department invites anglers and others to stop by the following open houses between 6 and 8 p.m.: Sept. 29 in Van Buren at The River Centre at The Landing, 110 E. Carter St.; Oct. 1 in Blue Springs at the MDC Burr Oak Woods Nature Center, 1401 N.W. Park Road; Oct. 5 in St. Robert at the St. Robert Community Center, 114 J.H. Williamson Drive; Oct. 6 in Farmington at the Memorial United Methodist Church, 425 North St.; Oct. 8 in Kirkwood at the MDC Powder Valley Nature Center, 11715 Cragwold Road; Oct. 13 in Springfield at the MDC Springfield Nature Center, 4601 S. Nature Center Way; Oct. 15 in Neosho at the National Fish Hatchery, 520 Park St.; and Oct. 19 in Columbia at the MDC Central Regional Office and Conservation Research Center, 3500 E. Gans Road. MDC is also accepting public comments online at mdc.mo.gov/node/9092 or through U.S. mail to: Missouri Department of Conservation, Attn: Policy Coordination, PO Box 180, Jefferson City, MO 65102.

Another post got me to thinking and rather than hijacking someone else's thread I'd thought it best to start a new one: What is considered to be the "lower" Meramec? And........................Go.

That's not a bad idea. LOL.

I think the No. 1 was meant for first book in a series and not the actual first one off the press. Copyright date on inside of cover says 1973.

As a kid you get access to cool stuff like this that generally isn't available to the rest of the civilized world........... Found this in a pile of old stuff last night while searching for something else. Fairly certain it is the first book that I ever read from cover to cover and at one point-during my early years of river rattin'-had the mileages and key points of each float memorized.

Not trying to burst your bubble, but you're not going to be able to run upstream from Pacific with anything but a jet unless you're willing to get out and pull the boat through shallow riffles and shoals OR you go during periods of high flow which generally, during those times, that part of the river is not fishable due to the dirty water that the Bourbeuse dumps into the river at Moselle (Chouteau Claim) Access. In fact, IMO anything above George Winter is going to be problematic in a prop boat most of the time.

I've taught Shop/industrial arts for 18 years now and I can say without a doubt that the work ethic of the kids has changed dramatically. When I first started teaching, almost all of the woodworking students built big elaborate projects. Now, after getting stuck with several unfinished projects for a couple years, the kids get the choice of building one of three different night stands. I actually had a kid a few years ago tell me that if he had known there was that much work involved in building an entertainment center he wouldn't have taken my class. But because he watched Bob Vila build one in thirty minutes on Channel 9 he figured it would be easy........... Our school also has a vocational/trade school attached to it and out of a group of 30 in a welding or carpentry class, they might have 4-5 that go on to make a living in that particular trade. Some students take the class just for the benefit of learning a skill they can use on the farm or around the house. But A LOT of kids now days have absolutely no plan for their future. I believe a lot of this is caused by too much coddling from parents who are way too overprotective of their kids.

5'10" and 220 to 235ish depending on the time of year. I think I like the lure 10 and sticker price on the ones I've looked at on line is around $1,000. I like the seat on the Lure kayaks and their width. Wasn't sure about how they handle and track. I may want to paddle whatever I purchase upstream occasionally and I wasn't sure about what boats paddle the best either. I guess what I'm saying is that i know completely nothing about solo crafts. Storage isn't a big deal as I doubt I'll ever take any long trips in the boat. I appreciate any and all opinions.

Currently considering an Old town 119 or something similar. But I've also been looking at the Feel free angler kayaks. All of my looking has been done on line so I'm open to any and all suggestions. Looking to stay under $1,000. I'll be using whatever I purchase in upper Big River and similar type water. THANKS!!!!

In the days before the jet boat, we used a 6hp Johnson as well as an 8hp Mercury on the back of my 17 Alumacraft. 6 horse was about right. Canoe was rated for 4hp by the way.

Always preferred Bobby "the weasel" over Bobby "the brain". Just seemed more fitting IMO.....

Use KVD's stuff and like it. Really notice a difference on reels I haven't used for a while and in the winter time when mono generally has a little more memory because of the cold.

Unless I'm a complete moron and cannot read, the Big has a 1-15 inch limit on smallmouth from MDC Leadwood Access all the way to the confluence with the Meramec. http://huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/fishing/regulations/special-areas As I mentioned in a previous post, not protecting the upper part of the river has isolated all of the catch and eat pressure to the most vulnerable stretch of upper Big and I don't think that it's a shocker to anyone that the fishing above Leadwood has declined. Extending the trophy smallmouth restrictions all the way to Council Bluff will take the harvest pressure off that stretch of the river as well. Contrary to popular belief, a lot of the guys who are currently harvesting fish from this section of Big River (regardless of how unethical we deem their practices to be) ARE within the current limits of the law.

Great news; especially for upper Big. Thanks to Dan and the rest of the SMA members for all your hard work.