Chief Grey Bear

Technicnally the MDC is attempting to restore the declining population of Prairie Chickens. Compared to other restoration projects, it is low cost. The bird are practically free. The state of Kansas is letting Missouri have the birds for free. All the MDC has to do is go and trap them themselves. So other than a little gas and motel money, that is about it. And the birds are transported and released within 24-36hrs of capture. I wish the MDC would have started working on the Prairie Chickens earlier. Like at least in the 1980's when there were still somewhat good populations. I went on Prairie Chicken count with the MDC last week and did not see a bird where just, say, 15-20 years ago you could find a lek with 60 birds. But like fishing regulations, to stop hunting them is not a fix all. Hunting Prairie Chickens in Missouri stopped in 1906. It takes many factors to come together in unison for this project to work. I hope it does work. I want my children to be able to enjoy the spring booming on a lek. Simply awesome!

Yes, get some boots. Hickory is very hard if not impossible to effectively fish from the bank. Keep an eye on structure and current. That is the key combination. It may be a rootwad, cut bank or even a single boulder in the middle. I know that sounds kinda "DUH" but, I just don't find many of them hanging in out in the current like they do in many other streams. Of course if the Honey Wagon has just made a delivery, well....

Heck of a nice bass! Pond fishing should really start turning on this week or next due to the quicker warming. I love fishing ponds this time of year. Really gets my fever going!

Well not really forever. They were not introduced to the US until 1963. The first confirmed specimen in Missouri was taken from the Mississippi River in 1971. So we know they didn't swim up the White. And I highly doubt the MDC stocked them. Now I don't know where all in Arkansas they were stocked so it may be possible they have moved down the White or maybe even the Kings. But it is my understanding that they mainly stocked in parts of AR south of the Ark River.

It is a Grass Carp. My latest info doesn't show to be in T-Rock yet. Only in the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers and a handful of tribs. I wonder if the MDC would be interested in seeing this??????

I seen him posting just the other day. But I have noticed the less I post, the less he posts.

I was thinking it was a 139????? But the more I think about maybe it is 143. My personal best was 80. Fought like a log. Now if you hook into one of those males in the 30-40 pound range....hang on baby!!!!!! That is a fight you won't forget. Love catching the bigungs but, dang those males will wear you plumb out.

You're right Wheatie, it is a nice fish. Just as fat and healthy as it could be. It was great to get out and stretch the the old bones. I hadn't really fished in the last few weeks and though we only fished for a couple of hours, it sure did stoke the fever. Give us a holler when you want to hook up, it is just about to bust wide open on the creeks!

Oh I know. That was apparent months ago when the beatings started on "regular fisherman" and expanded to poachers, giggers and the MDC.

It was my pleasure Gary. I had a great time and really enjoyed the delitful converstation. I really enjoyed the Chicago stories. And all that food talk....oh baby!!!!!! I was really amazed at just how much in common we have. Like I said, we'll let the weather warm a little and we will get out on the water and take a float. That is the best way to get a good look at what is here. It is trout related. I have spoke with many old time rivermen, including my father who has spent his entire life on these waters, about these stockings. From their recollections it seems that the preferred fish to stock were largmouth and trout. Largemouth even less though. In speaking with these men on bass stocking, the reaccuring answer seemed to be that they couldn't remember much bass stocking. They spoke of some bass being taken from the creek and put into ponds, but not so much from creek to creek. But they could remember lots of trout stocking. I questioned about smallmouth and it was stated many times over that while smallmouth were not considered a trash bass, it was not as high on the list as largmouth. Largemouth was the preferred bass at that time. And as I sit here and recollect back over my years on the river with these men, and even today, they don't target smallmouth. They still prefer LM bass. Well maybe not in Missouri, but Oklahoma seems to think so. Hence the battle about stocking Smallmouth in Grand Lake.

On streams east of Neosho/Spring River watershed, I wouldn't dispute that eric. I think it could increase the size and numbers that you are looking for. I am not sure though, it will increase as much as you are hoping for. I hope it does though. Anyway it is a futile conversation. By the postings of MSA members it is quite obvious that there is only one direction it is headed. I can't see spending $20 to butt heads with them when I can do it here for free. Plus, if I need to pay $20 for them to take me seriously, then that says a lot about the organization and how it views the concerns of others that also use the resource.

Well good luck. You boys sure seem hell bent on it come hell or high water. I just whish you knew more about the streams you want to add steeper regulations too. Thats all.

I meant to say " I am not sure how much MORE of the Elk there is. I would like to see Missouri do like I believe they do in Oklahoma and limit the number of canoes on the river.

I am not sure how much of the Elk there is. I believe it to only be about 22 miles in length. Before any new regulations get "pushed" upon us that got "short-changed", I would hope that some further studies are conducted first on the those waterways flowing west out of this corner of the state to establish what would be best for the Neosho strain. It was my understanding that, from talking to a biologist, the current special regs on the Elk may in fact be helping the LMB more than the SMB. I think there is also some question as to whether the Neosho strain has the same growth rate and reaches the same size as the TN strain. All I am saying is I think there may be some other dynamics in play in this small corner that may not be condusive with state wide special regs.

This may not be what you are looking for but, one time back in the very early 80's, dad I were fishing down a ways from from Eagle Rock and he caught one in the 3lb range while we were fishing for crappie. I think we may be surprised about just how many trout call T-Rock home.

Thanks for the kind words FC. I always consider it a honor and and pleasure to meet fellow fisherman from the forum, and in this case their signifigant others, to show them around my playground and fish. Even though I only got one trout and one Ozark Bass, I indeed had the most fun showing you the area and putting you on some fish. That jig from Phil worked great. I tie my own but may have to make a purchase. It was indeed awesome to watch those trout attack so aggressively. I am glad you had a great time and was not caught up Crane Creek Curse of a no fish day. Especially since this creek has seen a lot of action the last few weeks. It was also my pleasure to run into Plugradt while fishing Crane. I had a very pleasant conversations with him and hope to see him out there again someday.

Rational debate depends on what your view is of the subject being debated. I was not being contary for the sake of contararianism. I was merely stating my point of view. Nothing more, nothing less.

Hey, Gary, I thought you may have info that I hadn't read or seen. That is why I asked if you could share your info. I wasn't throwing punches. But I may have to run that by Ness and eric to confirm.

There is no shortage of the Neosho strain. Reletivly speaking though. There is a huge shortage in the number of streams they inhabit. With the Tenn. strain stockings that has been done in Oklahoma, I don't know that you could find a genetically pure Neosho bleow Grand Lake dam. Heck, good luck finding one in Grand Lake. Not due to genetics, they just don't like big water. That can kind of give you a picture of how small an area we are speaking of. Only 5 counties in Missouri a couple in Oklahoma and I think very few in Ks. I think that may be mainly due to the silt loads carried by most streams over there. But I will let Andy speak for KS as he has studied and researched that area.

That was why I suggested Monett. It is only about a 30 minute drive for anyone. Neosho, Joplin, Carthage, Springfield, Nixa, Repbulic,... Towns that are closer, Mt. Vernon, Crane, Aurora, P. City, Jenkins, Cassville,..... I just have a couple of personal principles holding me back at the moment. BTW, is every new member issued a box cutter?

As always I am in on it.

Can you share your data on that?

I saw it. Very entertaining. I will say as a fisherman, that was enough to keep me of that river. But as goodtime floater, I would float that thing everday! Eye candy was everywhere!