MoCarp

Flysmallie...Perhaps Ill invite you to a fishing "social" and you can ask whats wrong with all those people who drove 8 hours just to fish euro-style... as far as not seeing people who do this kind of fishing, how many muskie fishermen do you see? nothing wrong with changing hearts and minds about how fun it is to fish for carp... as well as teach the reality that common carp are not the bugaboo they are scape goated to be, interesting that it offends you the promotion of carp fishing or what I do with my time, I enjoy many things... wade fishing ozark creeks and streams, looking for arrowheads and Ice age fossils, exploring new biomes for new and interesting plants I have never seen... as my fishing opportunities expand, your's won't be diminished by euro-style carpers unless your thing is filling trash bins with dead fish with holes in them. If you are tired of reading my drivel, don't...to give me grief about it just makes me dig in my heals and try harder, at least I make you think...If I died tomorrow, I will have lived a full and interesting life.....cheers I almost never 'share" my spots anymore....lest they get shot up.....but I get closet carpers contacting me all the time about going and learning, one of the reasons I post such things...many of the things I post ARE my writing and content, research etc.....I may post a few interesting events I have planned for the fall...should be interesting Thats a buffalo, Ms Pauls fish sticks used to be made out of buffs caught commercially in the Mississippi, like most fish about 5-6 pounds would be better eating, I never liked cleaning fish, and giving them away just takes one more fish someone else would have the fun in catching... ...had a guy make me buff fish sticks once at a fishing social, they tasted great, he said rubbing down the slime off a buff before you cleaned it is the trick....

1) who decides what is "supposed to be" if thats the case take your butt back overseas and give your house over to "native americans" 2) its a myth people in europe have nothing else to fish for but carp in polluted waters, Trout, Pike, Zander (a walleye like fish) and wels Catfish just to name a few carp are the most popular by a wide margin. 3) no-I don't think they should stock carp in yellowstone lake 4) bighead and silver (carp) are not even related to common carp, do not even feed the same ways... green sunfish and largemouth bass are far closer related than bighead are to common carp..... the term "carp" is a catch all for many fish 5) we imported many things asian ring neck pheasants, cattle, bees, sweet clover, wheat, non-native species comprise 98% of livestock and food crops in the USA should those be eliminated? when the bighead and silver carp explosion happened common carp were tossed in the mix from ignorance, that is changing and many and I mean MANY people enjoy fishing for them. I won't convince everyone any more than I can make you stop running over turtles for fun.. you don't have to read my posts, but because you do, it tells me hearts and minds are changing and it just makes some people cringe In the past 20 years I have been carp fishing the number of vendors in carp gear have risen 100 fold...someone is buying the stuff..and no one eats Muskies ether do they? If you look up invasive fish you will see brown trout, largemouth bass right at the top of the list, no bass ever lived west of the rockies, and the best big carp waters are clear and clean.. again no-one eats Muskies, bone fish, tarpon and many other "game fish"..... Funny thing is the most valuable fish in the world, fish that people will spend 1000'a of dollars on are carp.....yup C-A-R-P.....to think thats not going to happen here your too late it already is!!!

Common carp are a Naturalised species and have been here for 140 years, stocked on purpose by the The United States Fish Commission, formally known as the United States Commission of Fish and Fisheries, was an agency of the United States government created in 1871 to investigate, promote, and preserve the fisheries of the United States, stocked them all over the USA from the 1870's onward..as far as invasive brown trout are listed in the top invasive list in the USA and world wide, and has been responsible for many fish extinctions, common carp were in the white river long before any trout, as far as what I want, you might be surprised that there are more carp anglers now in the USA than muskie fishermen So its not JUST me that would like to see some areas managed for huge carp.....considering over 8 billion (USA equivalent ) dollars spent each year JUST on carp angling, and more people fish per capita there than do here..so they must be doing something right to keep more of there youth fishing than we do. https://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?SpeciesID=931 Thats unfortunate that those fish get wasted, I have not looked to see if Missouri has a Wanton Waste regulation, or even if it would get enforced, I just wonder how many whoops fish get left in the lake, I do know of one huge floater brown that had a hole it it on Taney. I am the last person to want to take away anyones fun in the outdoors. but I can tell you I have had places that used to produce commons that averaged mid teens, hard pressed to land a 10 now to give you an example of the value placed on common carp; they are expencive to buy and stock in the UK...fish get microchipped because fish get stolen and moved to other fisheries, a 10-50 acre lakes properly stocked can generate a healthy income for its owner...renting out "swims" for a day or a week..the bigger the fish, the more you can charge, and stay booked....one place in France called "Gigantica" is almost completely booked for 2 years! Changes in regulations are happening across the US and some surprising places like Lake Fork, Tx are developing as places people travel to and spend $ fishing for huge carp and Buffalo http://rhfisheries.com/fishfarm

UTAH LAKE The common carp was introduced in 1883 as a source of food after native species had been depleted by overfishing. It is now the most prevalent fish found in Utah Lake. Carp make up about 90% of the lake's biomass, with an adult population numbering around 7.5 million. The average carp in the lake is about 5.3 pounds (2.4 kg), for a total of nearly 40,000,000 pounds (18,000,000 kg) of carp in the lake. Parley P. Pratt visited Fort Utah in June 1849 and saw thousands of fish being caught by settlers and Timpanogot indians. He estimated that 5000 barrels of fish could be secured annually from the fishery. The winter of 1885-1886 caused much of the livestock to die. LDS Church leaders sent members in the Salt Lake Valley to Utah Lake to obtain fish; an estimated 96,000 pounds (44,000 kg) of fish were brought back.(cuttroat trout) The first commercial fishery also started the same year. At the 1870 General Conference of the LDS Church, a committee was appointed to develop fish culture because of the declining fish harvest in Utah Lake. By 1904, it became illegal to commercially catch any fish except for non-native species. At least 25 species of fish have been introduced into Utah Lake's waters. Thirteen introductions were unsuccessful. Carp, largemouth bass, white bass, black bullhead, channel catfish, walleye, goldfish, yellow perch, blue gill, and black crappie are found in abundance. "The lake has a maximum depth of just under 14 feet (4.3 m) and an average depth of about 10.5 feet (3.2 m). This shallowness allows winds to easily stir up sediments from the lake's bottom, contributing to the turbidity or the impression of pollution seen in Utah Lake's water" Three faults run under Utah Lake. One of the faults, the Bird Island fault, runs under the eastern edge of the lake and helps give rise to hot springs near Lincoln Beach. The other major hot spring is on the northern shore and is called Saratoga Springs. The hot springs mostly result from the development of hydraulic pressure as the ground water slopes toward the middle of the lake. The lake contains a small island called Bird Island, about 2.25 miles (3.62 km) north of the Lincoln Beach boat ramp, near its south end. The island has a few trees and is somewhat visible from Lincoln Beach. During high-water years, the island may be completely submerged, the trees being the only indication it is there. It is a fairly popular destination among fishermen seeking walleye, white bass, and channel catfish.( non -native fishes) interestly in the 1800s and lasting into the 1930s, the killing of fish-eating birds was seen as a fish conservation measure. Bounties were given by local government entities, and upon presenting evidence of offending dead birds, game officers paid the bounties. A report by a hunter states, "There was a bounty paid on cranes and heron in 1895. Two men could make as high as $66 a day. Wading into the rookeries with their pants off they would crack the heron over the head. When the bounty was paid on pelican we would use a fish float tide to a wad of rushes. Gulls were also caught. There has been 10,000 slaughtered. At the Big Channel gidls have been shot and there are four or five hundred pelicans which have been shot. In 1928 I killed 1,240 mudhens [coot]. We would eat the hearts and gizzards, take the feathers and oil and discard the rest." it seems a historical legacy that something other than over harvest of gamefish was blamed on anything but the real causes, "Provo visitors and residents cautioned against algal blooms Utah Lake" JULY 3, 2017 "The blue-green algae in question is caused by urban runoff and wastewater but is most commonly attributed to warmer weather in the summer months, Spangler said." http://universe.byu.edu/.../toxic-algae-return Mike Slater, regional aquatic manager for the Division of Wildlife Resources, says a population of northern pike, placed in Utah Lake illegally, is growing in size. Biologists have launched a research project to learn how the pike might affect sport fish and endangered fish in the lake. And they need your help: "Why the concern? Slater says northern pike sit at the very top of the food chain. "They eat anything they want," he says. "Adding a predator like this may hurt the bass, walleye, catfish and panfish populations that already live in the lake." In addition to the many sport fish in the lake, June suckers — a fish listed as endangered on the federal Endangered Species list — also live in the lake. Slater says Utah Lake is the only water in the world where June suckers live. "The illegal introduction of northern pike could negate much of the work that has been done to recover the June sucker," he says. "Work to help June suckers has also helped sport fish in the lake. Whoever put northern pike in the lake did a selfish and thoughtless thing https://wildlife.utah.gov/.../1806-anglers-fish-in-utah...

Madison's lakes are 'impaired' by runoff-driven weeds and algae, state says "But the listing also could add further urgency to efforts to prevent farm manure from running off fields and into streams and lakes, said Josh Wescott, Parisi’s chief of staff" http://host.madison.com/.../article_7ce4fb1a-b310-5cee...

Lake Wingra is a shallow, spring fed, eutrophic lake with deep soils and a large drainage basin. Glacial till makes up the majority of the soils in the area, (meaning the lake bed is mostly silt (80%) and two major aquifers serve the springs that feed Lake Wingra. Located in an urban area of Madison, WI, the lake once had shores of sprawling marsh. The eastern, southeastern, and western shores have mostly been drained. To the north sits Henry Vilas Zoo and park, as well as Edgewood Drive, and in the southwest, the Nakoma Golf course. As the smallest lake in Madison, Lake Wingra has generally been used as a source of recreation, and generally considered the most ‘pristine’ of the Madison area lakes. While this is true, it does not mean that this lake is untouched. Many of the thirty-five springs that once fed Lake Wingra have been filled or rerouted for agriculture or wells, making the hydrologic budget (it means clean water feeding the lake)for the lake only a fraction of its historical values (Brown, 1927). Most of the wetlands surrounding the lake have been drained and filled in as well. All of the land that is now Henry Vilas Zoo and Park, and the Nakoma Golf Course was once marsh (Brown, 1927). in a nutshell, cool clean water that once supplied the lake was cut off, the bulk of water is now run-off coming from urban sprawl and golf courses, and a zoo...the water did clear up some, but this caused an explosion of weed growth that now has to be "mowed" at 4x the cost of carp removals, commons are still in the lake, just at lower densities, the bacterial levels still spiked in summer months prompting swimming beach closures, with commons no longer able to be THE scape goat, geese were then "removed" as well, it should be noted the lake STILL has water quality issues, groups have been trying to re-open old springs that once fed the lake, I contend that much of the water clearing can be given credit to better quality water inputs. Common carp, and buffalo (Buffs BTW are never cited but were also removed because they are native and don't meet the invasive label) are responsible for water clouding in a high silt environment, but only at density levels that produce very few trophy commons. if you have X number of fish eating and disturbing silts should it be one 30#er? not six 5#ers?.it seems we all see waters that produce monster common carp are better water quality and have healthy gamefish populations.. the cycle of renovate lakes always fails over time because the reasons carp get out of control are not met, too many carp are a symptom NOT THE CAUSE in most cases. Lake Wingra is a small lake located inside the city limits of the U.S. city of Madison, Wisconsin. The smallest of the five major lakes drained by the Yahara River in Dane County, Lake Wingra is bordered by the University of Wisconsin–Madison Arboretum on the south and west and the City of Madison on the remaining shoreline. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Wingra

if you examine the poster children of common carp renovations Lake Utah, UT and Lake Wingra, WI, both under close examination are damaged water systems, that had historically bad water quality issues, Laughably Lake Wingra had the water fowl removed because after the carp removals water quality issues still caused swimming beach closures, now the lake which still has carp but in lower numbers, is so clogged with vegetation its having weeds mechanically removed at 4x the cost of carp reductions!...Lake Utah is a high salt content water that HAD a native trout population fished to extinction till only 2 sucker species were the only native fish left in the lake, Common carp stocked by the Mormon Settlers to give them food fishes, water quality issues will be there if all fish are removed, raw sewages was dumped until 1967. It is no wonder how common carp made up 90% of the fish species in the lake. Utah Lake is a shallow freshwater lake in the U.S. state of Utah. It lies in Utah Valley, surrounded by the Provo-Orem metropolitan area. The lake's only river outlet, the Jordan River, is a tributary of the Great Salt Lake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Lake

It is documented that waters with an over abundance of common carp are typically DAMAGED waters, specifically overfished; that means removing baby carp eaters, Source point solution issues, EX. silt from exposed soils (Construction & farming & denuding of vegetative cover) Increased run off in urban areas; Because of asphalt, concrete etc covering soils, washing road salts. hydrocarbons thats gas and oil, trace elements, heavy metals, and sewage into a water system, Common carp can live better in those environments because of their ability to take O2 from the surface (Alligator Gar as well) The University Of Minnesota often referenced studies on controls of Common Carp (Cyprinus carpio) generalize that removing carp = better water clarity and better gamefish populations, increased native vegetation that helps waterfowl populations. This is in ONLY very narrow and specific situations, I will explain Prezmek Bajer dept of fish and wildlife studies, University Of Minnesota. lake Susan Minnesota common carp reduced from 200kg-60 kg per hectar or from about 250 pounds of carp per acre reduced to 130 pounds per acre "Carp are invasive in SOME places but not invasive in a lot of places 50-100 kg of carp per hectar are ok" Prezmek Bajer Lake Susan stratifies in summer, water clarity increased in May & June but fell back almost no change post carp removal levels July-October Bayer goes on to say phosphorus loading blamed on carp in laboratory tests, are not typically shown in real world in the lake results.....so phosphorus is not always driven by carp other things are happening we are not sure about It should be noted he goes on to warn vegetation along the shoreline usually goes up, this sometimes is a problem for recreational users Also of note common carp have poor recruitment in waters that have good populations of native fishes because those fish that feed heavlly on eggs and carp larva; bluegills specifically noted, Bluegills are one of the 1st fishes to die in a low O2 event exacerbating YOY recruitment of common carp

Mrigal carp (Cirrhinus cirrhosus) Grass carp or White Amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) Silver carp (Hypophthalmichthys molitrix)

In nature it is rare for a water say Table rock lake to achieve maximum fish carrying capacity, if you kill off all or a great deal of the population “rough fishes” common carp and buffalo for example..you do two things. 1 ) you eliminate young of the year forage for predator species, 2 ) predation on asiatic clams and zebra mussels..as well as feeding on benthic organisms including noxious insects. some state fisheries stock common carp to combat insect issues (Tempe Town Lake AZ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oaHLMmaC_E In aquaculture the biomass of ponds is vastly increased by utilizing NICHE BIOLOGY this is used to great effecting fish farming A combination of six species of fish to farm as much pounds of fish per hectare of water Catla carp (Catla catla) Silver carp (Hypophthalmichthys molitrix) Rohu carp (Labeo rohita) Grass carp or White Amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) Mrigal carp (Cirrhinus cirrhosus) Common carp (Cyprinus carpio) catla and silver carp are surface feeders, rohu is a mid column feeder, grass carp is a macro-vegetation feeder, mrigal and common carp are bottom feeders. A proportion of 30-40% surface feeders (silver carp and catla), 30-35% mid water feeders (rohu and grass carp) and 30-40% bottom feeders (common carp and mrigal) is commonly adopted for maximum niche output. Eliminating common carp and buffalo can not directly increase predator species like Largemouth bass or walleyes there is evidence that removing carp/buffalo fish can deny predators YOY food sources early in their life cycle, common carp and buffalo produce huge numbers of eggs broadcast and left to their own devices, Bluegills and other sunfishes feed heavy on the eggs and larva so much so in waters with good sunfish populations buffalo and carp recruitment is extremely poor, only in years with large flood events that give more vegetative shelter for fry survival do larger year classes of carp/buffalo happen. A good example of niche biology : take a 40 acre mixed woodlot 1/2 pasture 1/2 mature oak hickory woodlands and a 1/2 acre pond if you kill all the rabbits, you don’t get more squirrels, or deer or ducks or muskrats…you get less rabbit eaters. If you kill all the squirrels off you get no more rabbits or ducks or muskrats, but you would get less squirrel eaters sometimes the same as rabbit eaters..... Could you have enough squirrels to eat all the acorns that effected deer forage? possibly but not likely. want to get rid of all the coyotes, foxes and bobcats? get rid of rabbits, squirrels and rodents! Killing all the deer will not get you more wolves! Most times a water out of balance with too many carp or buffalo is one with predator issues sight feeders like bass walleyes and muskie suffer in a darker water silt laden lake for example, carp/buffalo removal will abate suspended silt issues if the lake doesn't stratify but this also can make weed grow explode and render large areas of the lake unusable for some water recreation however blue and flathead catfish are extremely effective rough fish predators, both can take prey over 10 pounds. Catla carp (Catla catla) and Rohu carp (Labeo rohita)

thats a ripper!

new brush usually need to age a bit before catching fish...not willow for some reason..used to look for black bell wire or binder twine on docks ..that told you brush was there....if you didn't get bites keep dropping line size..many times 2# test was the order of the day....I think the hay draws in planktonic critters, then bait, then bait eaters...I bet a pvc pipe drilled with holes and weighted would work great, plus not look like "brush"... just some kind of dock structure....I'd prob fill it with range cubes and hay.......1st jam in a ball of hay.... ram it with a pole....then a layer of range cube..repeat...kinda like loading a black powder shotgun!.....perhaps rolled up weeping willow switches..lots of ways......most fishermen would think it was sone kind of water logged boat fender etc....

we used to sink whippy willow limbs, not many 3-4 sink easy with a grapefruit sized rock...didn't show up so well on electronics but fish loved them..also 3 or 3 sections of a bail of alfalfa hay wrapped in chicken wire was da bomb too...then there is the range cube trick in onion sacks......

well done!...IMHO keep all 'dem spots!

Late 70's and vey early 80's winters were the coldest on record, I remember talk of "the return to an ice age" Shoal creek froze over in the winters of 75-79 I went to Canada on a fishing trip in the second week of June 1981, and stopped on our trip up at our Consumers Super Market, in the corner of the parking lot was a pile of some singers stained pile of Ice still melting piled up from the cleaning off of the parking lot time after time all winter long was worried that the lake might be still froze over in Canada but ice out was just a few days before we arrived. Winters are warmer than in my youth, once in Mobile Al in the 60's it got down to 2 degrees!...are we getting warmer? yes...but we have been since the last Ice age ended 12k years ago..is man causing it? IMHO NO!..at least not to the degree the media would lead you to believe...I'll link something to that effect at the end of this but I warn you, It may cause you an eye opening view on our human history and fragility of humanity and life on the big blue marble.... Walleye fishing has been bolstered by the massive stocking the state has been doing, the fish caught IMHO do not look fat n sassy like walleyes did in the 80's even early 90's fish...wish the state would bolster the smallmouth population, it used to be killa, catching several fish over 4lbs is not common any more.....or catching tons of the brown bass by the dam....... here is the pod cast on global warming so break out you science hats and go for a ride you won't forget..so if you loose sleep its not my fault you watched this

most carp bait I make is nice smelling and human food grade, even had a friend eating my snacks once and told him stop eating my bait...PAAAATOOOOWY he spit it out till I told him what was in it Banoffy crunch boilies, big carp love it...and so do people!

Didymosphenia geminata might be an issue, I have not sought any data on elevated phosphorus & nitrogen levels feeding algae blooms, typically that is seen in all the water strata....if toxic gases or other nasty things going on with bottom algae and could be effecting the benthic organisms or the fish's (or their forage) ability to utilize bottom habitat....perhaps the reduction via Bow-fishing has reduced carp/buffalo feeding on filamentous algae?....as a rule carp/buffalo densities over 100kg per hectare can elevate nutrients if the lake has high silt bottom areas of >70% (Eutrophic lakes) which Stockton is not......or the stratification keeps them from effectively bottom feeding?* an interesting note if you have say 200lbs of carp/buffalo per hectare in a lake... you can have it as 10 twenty pounders or 40 five pounders, the smaller more numerous carp/buffalo 1) 40 do more bottom "rooting" than the 10 larger carp/buffalo 2) 10 larger granny carp/buffalo spawn less successfully than the younger more numerous 40 carp/buffalo ** 3) Bow-fishing pressure reduces average sizes of Common carp, black and smallmouth Buffalo. *(Prezmek Bajer University Of Minnesota,lake Susan MN ) **Old Carp Sydrome (Bonneau,Scarnecchia,& Berard, Bowman-Haley Reservoir MT) more them than us

you can pick brood stock..so if you were in charge what would you chose?

and 8 pound smallie...we should be getting this type genetics from fish that already have come from our waters

A 13 pound bass

This is what a 20# walleye looks like

let see..Stockton has produced a walleye right at 17# 16-10 or something like that, the strain of walleye in the lake originally was a river spawning native strain, and the lake strain was stocked from whatever source the MDC gets them from..those it seems are rare to hit 8# ..its a genetics issue..not just a food issue....I remember when the walleye pros had he 1st big time tourney on Stockton, and was keen to see what monster they could catch...nope no giants, I think big fish was like 4-6 pounds..don't think they ever came back to Stockton for that tourney. Stockton has also produced a WORLD RECORD green sunfish and state record smallmouth bass....Truman lake almost broke the state record Largemouth over 13 pounds...as far as tarpon....your not catching hammerheads in elk river anytime soon or shooting elephants in mark twain ether I was told two thats right two state record class largemouth bass had been sampled out of Lamar Lake in the late 80's....the lake caretaker at the time was a tad salty that the MDC had sampled and trap netted the lake without his knowledge as the state dis not have authority over the private city lake!..I know TR has produced ten pound plus LMB from the roaring river side of the lake..perhaps bolstered by a diet of rainbow trout wash outs..... Terrierman and flysmallie..I don't expect ether of you to have grown into my 6-4 size, perhaps your mommies didn't wean ether of you soon enough to let your reach your size potential past the napoleon like stature you both enjoy ......ether way fish like people grow into what their parents genetics allow them too, its why rosie o'donnell no matter what she eats will always have been bigger than say ariana grande.... I content state hatcheries people should try to have a share a Lunker program, bass both small mouth and largemouth and walleye...or when those exceptional fish are electro sampled or trap net sampled keep them for spawning genetic reasons, bull shoals produced a 22 pound walleye, imagine keeping the spawn off that monster....worth while? thats a no brainer...why on earth that hasn't been done???? Stockton also doesn't have the numbers of coves or undulating shoreline like TR does, as far as fertility perhaps an old dairy operation up stream no-longer operates? it seems the water doesn't have the planktonic life it once had..perhaps leading up to providing water to Springfield they abated potential nutrients entering the lake from what had been entering the system? hard to say....

why can't we grow Crappies like Mississppi? or walleyes like MN? Giant redears like AZ? or mammoth yellow perch? well Bullshoals looks like its on its way to massive jumbo perch

The "share a lunker" program in Texas was/is a smashing success..something that should happen here...as far as spotted bass dropping the limit to 12" seems reasonable smallies get harvested too fast, they are very aggressive........ a slot limit on bass in Stockton would be preferred...... but bass blasters might revolt, 6 bass limit 12" on spots, only 2 can be smallmouths min 18" on all but spots only one bass of any species over 21" selective harvest works.....

If I knew at the time I would have, no information on where or when game was taken....don't know if game laws had been broken...most are from a person in Arkansas, yet they could have driven to Louisiana to take game....my point of the post is what is enough?....the "I don't see as many ducks as before"...or "I never catch fish like I used to".... well if people harvest like that ...thats why.........I don't object to harvest and using fish and game, yet history is rife with OVER harvest to the ruination of lakes, rivers and huge swaths of habitat, .....but dumping 1000 snow geese in a ditch, or dumptering fish that could be used as food-give the Antis far more to use against us....the general public that doesn't hunt or fish sees this and we as outdoorsmen get besmirched.....if you can kill 20 deer..should you? or perhaps take a wounded warrior hunting, or a young would be hunter and share the hunting bounty that way... I can assure you those pics are real..never said it was a game violation... and I am sure the persons that do this get a little salty when someone says hey man, go a little overboard?....its like the drunk that gets shown his wreck or where he barft on the floor....not illegal to party or get drunk....but we are always on trial in the court of public opinion