MoCarp

it would be cool to ask would they be clients would be happy to keep one less trout if they ran significantly larger ...... I also wonder if there are other critters besides scuds/sowbugs that could be introduced to further enhance forage opportunities???...one reason I am a big proponent to stock Tiger Trout because they have been documented in eating more chubs/suckers than bows and pure browns..how ever small 6" bows would become tiger trout food..I think those would be a cool add to opportunities in Taney..stock them at 12" at 1/2 the rate of browns one per day 20" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_trout

1st global warming..over the last 10 years or so our winters have been milder/shorter and summers hotter/longer.....its cyclic as has been so ever since the end of the last ice age..this summer we didn't break 100 and was one of the coolest wettest summers I can remember......warm years spots populations pulse higher...a few colder years it prob would pulse more smallmouths ebb and flow is what happens in nature.. as far as sampling..usually wet behind the ears grad students get the nod to help in many states....even some state people are not as river rat as the could be...I will tell you a stretch of elk have huge bronze backs but you will never shock one up..why?..they hang round under ledge rocks like some mini grouper crushing what swims in front of them...you might stun one but he won't float up to the net. spots as well as LMB can hang pretty deep around brush they are not getting deep enough to shock up more spots. I think it may skew the numbers some what I still think stocking a few more smallmouths while removing spots is a good thing for ozark streams

I grew in in Mobile Alabama, grandparents in south Mississippi..even today most counties are DRY can not even sell beer....if they can get casinos there they can ANYWHERE .... if enough politicians gets the grease..what else would you all it??....rock n roll and 6o foot flames...all we need now is evil kenevil jumping a shark what he said look at it this way gator jet..if it does happen you'll get the contract on 100 jet boat tours

you have me at that quote that was trout addict,,,just saying

its all about demographics I am 57 and my generations parents are almost all gone...they made Branson thrive...one reason the movers and shakers want to bring the LOZ party demographic to TR...IMHO I'd rather see a different demographic driving by those how want to nurture and protect the beauty of or area and not succumb to the easy quick buck...one reason I advocate the larger fish less consumption....the types of people that follow that typically don't over exploit....unless there is a huge ground swell, I am afraid 90' boats and casinos are the future..the first shot of that was the landing (Las Vegas of the midwest)....the big money people will exploit, trash..then live in another cool place once we end up like the salton sea here you are correct MDC knows this and its why we have the regs we see....as far as varied yes Gmaw n Gpaw take the Grandkids to such entertainment......but its def fading interesting and good points

Ill see if I can find a recommendations list......

I have fished the spring river system for years and its interesting as smallmouths can be anywhere but seem to be concentrated in certain areas....I remember once if you fished the old rebel frog in gold, you'd catch spots...rebel craws smallies.....wierd ........you can catch some monster SMB in spring and shoal....but spots are numerous....I'd love to have been on a shock study to see whats there...but slab rock areas with good current = SMB....upper parts of shoal creeks are very good SMB areas...not as easy to wade fish...one reason I loved fishing out of a float tube..can't cover water as well but gives you stealth for big fish....since yaks got popular more pressure than in the past never caught a spot/smb hybrid.....there are a couple of small creeks that are clear in the spring river drainage that are dominated by smb never caught a spot..couple of LMB......I might need to PM chief to see if he's hit that one

that is amazing!

disease, habitat degradation, mans actions on there habitat, boats, gravel intrusion..even things like moving rocks around.... they are raising them at the hatchery below TR dam...st louis zoo has been heading this they even microchip them even its my understanding that you will be seeing some restriction in some streams https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8iamcw9gmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSgTXAn-Fq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxgcR2RSfXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufA8ZjsUhQw

one of the BEST habitats are cut are tree stumps hard to move but man they last

BULLS EYE! NO SOUP FOR YOU! me thinks snagged would get us in trouble in a bar..."look at her what a butt on her"..."what did you say about my girl?"...oh snap!

That is the rub..most people would love having bigger fish...how do we have our cake and eat it too?

a poll taken of people on the lake through out the year asked pointed question would give us that...prob already been done before.....one question would be what else are you doing here besides fishing...... YES! that means extreme harvest.....you can get back to those results by limiting harvest allowing the fish to grow a tad bigger..... That is true you still don't see as many boats down stream as in other lakes and thats good...as long as we don't see jet boat tours blasting about blaring AC-DC

I have heard state people have been tasked with location of existing Hellbender populations and stable habitat for restoration gigging of theses critters has been an issue back in the day (have had friends tell me as such) you can kiss off gigging (jet boats too) where they re-establish them..big time federal $$$$ so bend over its happening

I truly find it hard to believe people would stop coming to Taney because they can "only" keep 4 trout vs 5...would you say those you lost are older? we are only supposed to keep 2x the daily limit in the freezer.....the interesting thing to ask is; why do people come to Taney? if they say fill the freezer full of fish then your right....the post a while back where the MDC busted people with bags and bags of over limit trout...its that mentality that hurts our sport..do we really what that? is someone that feels they deserve to fill the freezer many times beyond the legal limit...it would be my hope that the status quo isn't ever good enough and we should strive to do better..most people are reasonable...and as any business owner knows some clients are cool and other are well...you know...one of my closest friends fishes out of lilly's a lot and he keeps and eats a lot of fish and he fishes because he loves it...eating fish is a plus not a requirement...I think the longer a fish is out of the hatchery and in the "wild" they are better eating IMHO I agree both places rock for fishing...but could we do better? and how do we get there? I agree, most anglers go through a keep everything faze..I was no different..... fished the greater Taney area couple times a week...more in the winter less in spring, when I got into carping fished every weekend for 4 years and I have fish dinner every know and then Phil knows his stuff..he should making and living on the fishery..I went to school to be a fisheries Biologist.. fell it to advertising instead lots better $.......I made my living knowing demographics.....if you want to "sell" a good service or idea you better know your client...2 schools of thought here...you can go wall mart and do it by volume...powerbait/freezers full of pan size trout....in the sales world thats picking low hanging fruit....then you have the upscale sell...less volume, but client demand a better product....anyone can see what happens when a place goes into decline its not pretty....the question is where is the branson econoplex as far as rising or falling......I can tell you how it will play out in the end.....imagine if fish avg 20"....back in the day you could limit out on fish that size...perhaps thats why I am jaded.....I look at this from a different perspective....

"If you build it they will come" game hogs are just that....I would say people will still come to Taney to fish even if they can only keep and eat 18"ers....anglers that are not "casual" angler spend a great deal more than the part time people....when you go on vacation to Branson and want to go fishing... your still going to trout fish if your from a place you don't get that opportunity...1st time I ever fished Taney was as a kid from Mobile Alabama....it won't matter one iota if the limit is 2 fish at least 18".... or...10 trout any length.....but you will get more serous anglers traveling to Taney to catch twenty 17 3/4" with a couple of mid 20s.......its demographic 101....want fish dinners...hit up a trout park

yatch slaps spoondog.......yes they are sterile....not effectively reproducing much even if they are not triploids..THATS why its called put and take... as far are genetic management its important....IMHO the most important part of stream management going forward (besides source point pollution) I would like to see bag and length limits removed from spotted bass in smallmouth streams, along with a vigorous stocking program with (share a lunker style) better trait native smallies

not accurate...if you take a dog you can breed them up or down in a few generations..fish can be selectively bred much faster than most species....genetics are the future....look at the success Missouri is having with triploid brown trout..in a put and take environment it can be ideal ALL humanity is getting bigger..it isn't food is less growth reading childhood sickness...I am 57 had mumps..measles and chicken pox....all kids did....my age groups grand kids will not have to go trough those sicknesses....that and better prenatal care have bumped sizes in human populations I would love to see where the "mother strain" of SMB came from...if you look as some of the more obscure black basses you can see the that they are closer related to SMB than LMB....there is methodology that could identify where that is.. but with early fisheries agency a bass was just a bass...so that confuses the situation Thats just crazy talk....the window of growth in lake of the woods is tiny compared to an ozark stream..or area lake...as far as growth profiles I have read...June July and August are the fastest growth months...food is is hyper available during those months, insects come on heavy in the hottest months..(see them bats?)when moths at night start to come on are one of the best times to top water fish for bronze backs...jitterbugs and now ploppers..can get you the biggest fish of the season those same farmers/ land owners do what they want to do...unfettered fish stabbing...etc...like I have said in other posts you may pay for the use of the land but that land will be there once you are dead and gone you only "own" it while you are here on this earth...and the effects that you do to the land can run generations down time from you...something I feel is lost on many in closing GMO is a term you might hear a time of 2 over then next few years

just like aunt ethers kids are fat and 6' tall...aunt junes kids are scrawny and are 5' 8" we want the genes of the BEST natives not just the ones that never reach 12" and get to spawn there whole lives driving the population smaller genetically squeaky wheels get the grease

as far as growth rates....north country states have very short growing seasons and produce far more big smallmouth than we do...the TVA system grows monster fish....better genetics the recent push to stock TN strain smallmouths have pushed states to look closer to looking at the genetics of our fish...the last convo I had with a state biologist they were getting fin clips of our areas fish to get a baseline on what we have the Neosho strain is a different critter...but we know almost nothing about why they are different from growth rates, top end potential etc In most waters that feed a lake smallmouths will populate the lake..that never happened in grand lake..catching a brown bass lake side of #10 bridge isn't common...and we don't know why how can we have better fishing?....get the brood stock of the native fish that express the traits we as anglers want stock the hell out of that strain....make sure they have food...and that means address the prey items, pollution and gravel intrusion may mean less crawfish and small chubs...don't think thats ever been studied much.....with more aggressive management we can have bigger smallmouth....I talked to old timers that told be they used to catch 6-7 pound smallmouths from the elk river drainage before the dam went in at disney...(eels and blue cats too) they also say how much shallower the river is now these are people that fished the river pre WWII....I wish I could go back in time and document some of what the old timers used to say about fishing back then....I wonder about the logs and brush that are not in the rivers like in the past...I remember a study on how old and how long some of the streams logs have been in there....shocking but some are over 10k years old....ice age no less.....MU has done a lot on this....a guy found a log once and could not tell what species it was brought a chunk back and it turned out to be a species of conifer that only grows today in the far north on the edge of the tree line for arctic tundra...those habitats have not existed in Missouri in over 12k years! then they carbon dated it and confirmed...it is interesting to think about what things where like back then.... https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/5f8d/581024858518bd4f1e97deb621ef1ad133d0.pdf

I was thinking like an ice chest with 500 minnows needs more O2 that 150 bigger minnows....in this case trout in runways The huge floods have drained areas that now have far more people than in the past...septic tanks, road hydro carbons, more hard surfaces this allows faster run off and will continue to push water faster...look at an old aerial maps of the greater Taney watershed (get the oldest ones they have on file, usually at the county extension office) and compare to google earth and you will be shocked!....all that pavement and roof tops do not sponge water, we will continue to have these issues...its one of the reasons you see retention ponds to slow water to storm drains....there are ways to mediate that with green spaces and wet land creation... as time goes on this will be a major concern..that and removing chronically flooded structures will be in the news good points....organic matter will decay O2 gets used....after the initial drop ,......the extra nutrients should see a bump in critters that trout feed on

everything starts with food..low DO events are killer.....what would it take to have better DO? its been a few years but Crawford Co lake in Kansas near the Farlington fish hatchery has a huge aeration apparatus that pumps O2 deep in the lake, they did that for the stripers they keep in that lake from what I understand lots of brood stock for the hatchery comes from that lake...always wonder how they could do that for taney... more O2 would allow less fish kill situations, and that means trout forage as well, less trout but bigger trout is a good thing IMHO but I also think another reduction in limit perhaps......the MDC does try and get the pulse of the public..but I think more to see if they will catch grief from something they are moving forward with....a reduction in fish packed in the runs means they need less O2 thats a given...better to insulate problems of low O2 events AND at the same time give anglers what they want...BIGGER TROUT..thats a win win

Stockton will make you respect the wind...so be careful......spring is right around the corner

well said

now your just getting salty federal fish perhaps "meat fishing" is a thing of the past....a fine trout dinner a couple times a year is ok....but stacking fish like cord wood in your freezer is an antiquated way to look at things anymore...at the expense of great fishing that could be had its a "random sample".....done all the time to take the pulse