ness

Not knocking it -- just not my cup-o-tea.

Zach, I think you've got the idea -- it's not just about saving $$. It's about getting your head more into what's going on. You could probably learn a few things and improve your game, if you went to the trouble. Me, maybe someday. But for now I do store-bought and at most replace/repair them. I ought to slow down and be a little more smart with my leaders and tippet, but I don't. Google George Harvey dry fly leader -- that'll probably get you on the trail for some recipes.

I'm with you on that. Haven't been there since I was a kid 30+ years ago, and I haven't heard anything that makes me want to go back. Gimme cool, clear, feces-free water and a canoe loaded with just enough stuff to get by, surrounded by the sound of NOTHING, and I'm good.

Not every confrontation requires a response. Honestly, the most powerful response you can make sometimes it to simply skip it. Kinda like others have said -- argue your issue civilly, stick to facts and build your position. If your opponent makes it personal, nit-picks your spelling, or otherwise doesn't refute your position, then you've won. Take satisfaction in knowing that, and don't expect or need someone to declare you the winner. Move on. Lotsa gentlemen on here, and a few that aren't. Just like real life.

That's the exception, not the rule with them. I once returned a pair of wading boots that didn't measure up a couple years after I bought them -- without a receipt. No questions asked. OP: You're buying two things -- waders and boots -- and you severely limit yourself if you try to shortcut this and get them together. If it's a money thing, consider starting with a good boot first and adding the waders later. You can wet-wade in a lot of circumstances with just a wading boot. When you buy a wading boot, your first consideration should be the boot itself. It should offer the things you need in any good boot -- fit, comfort, support, etc. It's going to have a sole that helps with traction on rocks, allow water to move out and offer good support improving your stability in the water. And, those are all good things worth paying for. With a boot-foot wader, you'll get a slip-on boot, maybe one with some laces to tighten it up, but it's just not the same. Lotsa good wader and boot choices already mentioned, but here's what I'm using: Simms Freestone boot and LL Bean breathable waders. These are my second pair of Freestones. They're durable, comfortable and offer good stability. They have a felt sole. Approx $80. Maybe a little stiff though -- they're made of plastic. I might go with a Condura-type material and a studded sole next time. Definitely go with breathable waders if you can swing it. They're so much lighter and more comfortable than rubber or neoprene. One handy feature to look for is a built-in gravel guard. It's a cuff sewn in above the ankle that covers the top of the boot and prevents gravel from coming in. Nice little feature, though you can just buy a separate cuff if your model doesn't have it.

Maybe you caught them on an off night. They definitely don't boil their ribs -- no self-respecting BBQer would ever do such a thing. As to their beans -- they're usually excellent. With a sweet / smoky / spicy balance and a chunk of burnt end every so often, they're hard to beat.

Sounds like under the deck is your best option. I don't know about storing them on-end, but ideally you want something that spreads the weight around rather than taking a chance warping it. I'd put a couple timbers down so it's off the ground and store it upside down so the gunwales bear the weight. Props to you for getting it out of the apartment BEFORE it becomes a problem.

Asking ain't selling.

Michael, Yep -- that was Gregg. Good guy, knows his stuff and listens to what you want. He did a great job with my two boys last summer, and with me on 2 or 3 other trips too. I don't think he's guiding out of Estes Angler anymore though, but that may have changed. John

I was having some problems with things here a while ago, and it turned out to be my 'skin'. If you have changed from the default, that may be what you're encountering. Or, maybe not

True dat. Looks like a great trip.

I know some BBQ folks that'd put your lights out for a statement like that. Meat is easy -- good meat isn't. To the OP: dgames and the others makes a good point -- the atmosphere at Bryant's original location (not the one near the race track) is an important part of the deal. I suppose if I had to recommend just one place for an out-of-towner, that would be it. And, I'm in the group of folks that prefers their other sauce, not the original so much. I think all the KC Masterpiece's are gone -- and that's good riddance, IMO. Their sauce is OK though, and holds special memories for me. When I was in college it was just coming out and the cook where I lived would buy it in gallon jugs with a generic-looking black and white label. We could put that sauce on anything she made and make it edible.

It's good, but not great IMHO. Bryant's will have the celebrity photos on the wall, and you can have the satisfaction of eating where they all did. Nixon, Clinton, Emeril, whoever. There are a lot of very good BBQ restaurants in KC, so it's hard to just recommend one. Others I like: Oklahoma Joe's, Jack's Stack, Hayward's, RC's, Gates.

Sweet. I haven't been there in the Fall, and really want to do it sometime.

Thanks for that Joe. For the record, I didn't mean that guides don't fish for fun, just that I *only* fish for fun. Sorry if I mistook your question as a challenge -- that was a little carryover from the earlier post. FWIW, and as an explanation of why I'm even involved in the thread, I think the guiding business is pretty interesting. It's a service, and you're working with a wide range of personalities and trying to make all of them happy. No matter how good you are, you're gonna have trips that don't produce well -- and that ain't easy. Having some dolt follow you around and take a shortcut to finding fish isn't fun, but it's part of the deal. So you know where I'm coming from, maybe a little: Last month I fished with a guide in Tennessee with my two 13-year old sons. One guide, three clients, two of which have the attention span of a gnat. We were fly fishing for trout in Great Smoky Mtn. National Park, and early that morning there was a huge thunderstorm that blew out all the streams in the area and knocked out the power. That was the only day we could fish, so we couldn't reschedule. Pretty tough set up, right? He spent a bunch of time working with the boys, and when they lost interest he worked with me. He helped me on a particular technique (very long roll casts with a heavy fly) which was really beneficial. As we drove around looking for fishable water, and there was lots of that, he kept us entertained with stories about the locals and the history of the area. If you boiled this trip down to the numbers, it worked out to about $20 per inch of fish caught. So, was it a bust? Hell no it wasn't a bust, and I let him know that. So, the moral to my story, if you're still reading, is I've got a lot of respect for you guys and what you do. Take care, and thanks again.

You know, I just can't let that one slide by. I didn't bash you or disrespect you or anybody for what you do for a living. No way -- can't lay that one on me. What I did do was respond to this comment: And as to your "Do you?"question above, yes I do. I volunteered for a number of years, and ultimately served on the board of The Dream Factory. If you haven't heard of it, they work with critically ill children. I was also a Cub Master and Assistant Scout Master for 7 years, but I don't work with veterans. I'm not crowing, you asked. Just like before. Am I OK now? I've been a gentleman throughout this thing, and have tried to have a little fun too. I'm not on here to compare jobs, bash guides or smooth things over for Dallas. I didn't read every post, but I don't think the tone was overly negative towards guides. Certainly not from me. A few posts back, I believe the word 'jerk' was used in a context that would include me. Don't feel like that was really necessary, but I'm not really surprised at it given the rising tension here. If I had one negative thing to say about the guides it would be this: I think some here have been a bit harsh, and have fostered an unnecessary us-versus-them tone to this discussion. And, I would add that there have been some that have handled themselves like gentlemen, or simply avoided the fray. My hats off to the latter.

I suppose your point is that all of us non-guides wish we were in your shoes? I've got some news for you -- I fish for fun, and I enjoy what I do for a living (and it's not fishing). If you're living your dream, that's wonderful. But don't make the arrogant assumption that all the rest of us are jealous.

I've seen it said a couple times in this thread that following a guide is stealing, and I think that's a bit of a stretch. When you hire a guide you're not buying a boat ride to some nice water. You're hiring someone to show you how to catch some fish. Sure, part of that is getting to the right spot, but there's more, right? (If there isn't, you're with the wrong guide). So following a guide will only get you a fraction of what the client gets. Sure, it's a crappy thing to do, maybe even $%^tty, but it's not stealing. I suspect this has been going on for a long time, and the smarter guides have figured out ways to deal with it, still get the clients and make some money. I also suspect the smarter ones do what they can to stay ahead of the crowd -- like learning to read the situation and change your location and/or tactic accordingly. Sure, some bozo in the next boat can see where you go, and maybe even what you're doing, but I suggest you let them have it. Give them a wave, maybe even flip them a little $%^&, but don't let it ruin your day. Seems like there's some pretty strong feelings out on Table Rock, and honestly, as an outsider, I wonder why I'd go there when I read some of this. It might be worth thinking about the impression you give when you post on here. This stuff lasts forever, or until Phil deletes it. As to Paul Dallas and his remarks, I think you guys have been a little hard on the old feller. He's a legend and pioneer in the world of internet fishing forum tomfoolery, and the way he's been treated here isn't befitting a man of his stature. He can take care of himself, when he has his wits about him, and doesn't need me to step in here to defend his name or educate this forum as to his credentials. Nonetheless, I'd encourage you to listen to what he has to say, because there's a heap of wisdom and some good entertainment buried in those seemingly irrational posts.

Holy crap...Paul Dallas! I remember you from the old Conservation Cafe. Sir, your reputation precedes you, at least for a few of us. Boys -- this guy is the real deal. But maybe not in the way you're used to thinking about it. May I respectfully suggest you fellers relax, listen and learn.

That there was funny

Point: focused fishing OK Armstrong, whatchoo got?

Eric -- that's a little narrow-minded, isn't it? You're the CEO of your guide service, so you get to deal with all the crap that goes along with it. In every business, somebody is dealing with competitors, patents, trade marks, trade secrets, whatever. You gotta figure out how best to deal with it. See my post a while back for more wisdom.

I think some of these guide posts are pretty interesting. I've used a guide on several occasions (though never for bass fishing) and have a great deal of respect for the skill set required. It's absolutely NOT all about catching fish -- it's about giving the client a good time, and that definition can vary from client to client. I think the very best ones are in-tune to what their client is after, and tries his damnedest to deliver. And if he does that well, the word will spread and he'll have earned new business, right? I guess I don't see the big problem with tag-alongs. Sure, it's a kinda crappy way to fish -- but there are always people like that around. Whenever you're successful at something, someone's gonna want to glom on to you and get it the easy way. That's just the way it is, so I'd suggest not losing any sleep over it. If you're getting followed by someone and you're with a paying client, how about you just point that out to your client and let them know it's a pretty common thing. Let them know that landing on the spot is only a fraction of the technique -- that presentation, lure choice, whatever are still important. Maybe demonstrate and make them confident that there's value in being on your boat, and not the one next to it or out on your own. As to the e-mails or phone calls -- just nicely tell them you don't really have any info for them, chuckle and leave it at that. Don't need to lecture or get pissed -- just move along. Your blood pressure will stay in check, and you'll live longer.

Dang! I was just gonna suggest the skin. I changed mine some time ago and all kinda stuff quit working. Macs are beautimous.

Benson's gone