ozark trout fisher

I've actually more tried the email route...... I'll check out that link right now.

Interesting post.... I don't really think they should put a total kabosh on the trout fishing at Maramec... But I do think, first of all, they should take the rock dam down, and possibly consider reducing the number of trout stocked. I do agree that it may be more important to change the regs on spotted bass. I say that they eliminate the daily limit, and make it mandatory to creel all spots caught, totally making it illegal to release them. Also, I'm not sure they should allow any harvest of smallies there, or at the very least enforce something like an 18" minimum, and a daily limit of 1. Of course that's pretty hard to enforce that, but most folks would follow it just because that's the rule, or at least I hope so. I think I may have hijacked my own topic. Oh well. It's still an interesting conversation, or at least I think so.

I really respect your knowledge on the subject... But I think there is a problem. In the Meramec watershed, Maramec Spring is one of only a few spring branches large enough to be a significant thermal refuge for smallmouth bass during the winter. First of all, there is a rock dam on the lower end, which, unless water is high, prevents any fish from moving up. Also, it would make a lot of since that the 100,000 trout stocked per year would really deplete the food supply, even if the bass could get there. Considering smallmouth bass populations are declining dramatically for other reasons (primarily spotted bass,gigging, and overharvest), in the Meramec Basin, I would say this is a definite problem. I say some serious thought should be put in about changing management of Maramec Spring, and the rock dam at the lower end should be taken down no matter what. I don't know about the Niangua watershed, and how bass are being affected there. I am just not familiar with the area.

no, he apparently sh*&& in a stream instead. :lol: :lol:

You hit the nail right on the head. No one could have said it better. We are all honored and excited that you are with us on this one.

I've had many enjoyable and interesting evenings on the Bourbeuse and the Meramec. Great night fishing for smallmouth bass and brown trout at night. A big rapala will do nicely.

This post, as like most of your posts, was very interesting and informative. I was hoping you would chime in on this topic, given your almost boundless knowledge of Missouri streams. That is an interesting thought that some unrecorded species may have been caused to be extinct by trout. It's a sad thought really. It seems like the winter refuge of the Meramec River (Maramec Spring Park) has been ruined. Rock dams have been built, restricting fish movement, and as you stated earlier the trout greatly deplete the population of forage. The same thing has happened at Montauk State Park and Bennett Spring. I don't know about trout parks. They're a lot of fun, but ecologically, they are terrible. Dumping in 100,000 non-native fish into a one mile long stream each year does not sound like conservation to me. It just seems wrong. But on the flip side of this issue, these trout parks bring many new anglers into the sport that may not found there way to our great streams otherwise. They definitely have value in that since. There are so many facets to this issue. It's difficult, and even impossible to take one hard stance on the issue. There are altogether too many factors to consider. I will say this. If the trout parks at Bennett and Maramec Spring are hurting the smallmouth fishing in the main rivers, something must be done. What that something is, I don't know. Smallies are a precious resource, and they are becoming less common, especially in the Meramec watershed.

I was really hoping to get some advice on what might be a good floating/deer hunting/ fishing stream this fall. Here are a few things it would need to work 1. Significant Public Land along the river 2.Decent deer population in the area (duh) 3. Some halfway decent fishing to enjoy between hunting stops. I don't care if its trout, smallmouth, largemouth, or even catfish. 4. A stream that's pretty tame, so I don't tip my boat and ruin my gun. All these this criteria leads to three possibilities for me. 1. The Eleven Point from Greer to SH 142, 2. Current River Baptist to Van Buren 3. Upper Jacks Fork 4. Chariton River in Rebels Cove Conservation area (way up in northern Missouri, just south of Iowa, apparently there is good deer hunting and decent catfishing) I'm leaning towards the Eleven Point from Greer to Whitten. It has all the public land I need and more, decent deer populations presumably, and off course excellent trout fishing, not to mention the region's best scenery. Sounds like a good fit. But I'm willing to consider other options. If anyone has some other stream stretches that might work, or some how to tips, I would be ever so happy to hear them. I have only been hunting deer for a few years, and this float hunting thing is totally new to me. It sounds like a blast (pun intended).

I've have considered the possibility, of in a few years (or when I feel I have adequate river experience) starting a fishing guide service (for trout and smallmouth bass) on the Current and Jacks Fork River. I am aware that a National Park Service Permit is necessary, but I have tried contacting them a few times to no avail. So, does anyone have any ideas of the costs, and or difficulties of getting one of these permits? I would be running them out of an unmotorized drift boat. Even if you're not totally sure, I would appreciate the slightest bit of advice. I'm really having trouble finding the information I need here. It's pretty frustrating.

Acording to the MDC statewide fishing report, you should be good to go. It says Roaring River is low, and just barely off color from recent rains. I wouldn't using anything heavier than 4# test.

Those are some cool looking flies. I betcha they'd do wonders on the bass and carp hanging around the Meramec.

That's a nice mess of fish right there. Got to love the walleye and hybrids.

true. I only know of a couple springs that feed the Bourbeuse (Kratz and Mint Spring)

I have fished all of those streams many times....... All are truly great fisheries. Glad you had a great trip.

The Bourbeuse sure is low. I really don't understand why. This hasn't been that dry of a year, has it. On my last trip (way upriver), there was barely adequate flow for decent fishing, and there simply wasn't enough for an enjoyable float.

Hope you get to feeling better.

I do think that the native species deserve more concern than trout. It just seems logical to me. Still, as I've said many times in this thread, I am by no means suggesting we quit stocking trout in any water they are currently stocked. I would be (admittedly selfishly so) upset if they did. But I do not think we should stock any new waters with trout where they aren't currently found. I wouldn't have said that a year ago, but my opinions have changed. By the way, to the other "topic at hand" I hope to catch use a minnow as bait, catch a small rainbow, catch a big brown on the rainbow, catch a striper on the brown, and then catch the Loch Ness monster on the striper. All on my ultralight spooled with two pound test. :lol: :lol:

Catfish on a fly. Now that sounds like fun. I've caught a lot of catfish (admittedly not on a flyrod) around Robertsville State Park, and Pacific Palisades. I also have some private access to the river 1/4 mile before it meets the Mississippi (near Arnold), and the fishing is great there for all species of cats and rough fish, as well as the occasional big largemouth. I believe there are a couple bridge crossing down there where you could gain access. That's area near the mouth is the best catfishing I've had on the Meramec. But it is usually backed up by the Mississippi, so its very muddy. Fly fishing would be a challenge.

. It is about preserving an ecosystem. The one in place, is the natural ecosystem that has been there thousands of years. Building a lake would create another ecosystem, you are correct, but it would be a wholly unnatural one. Crane Creek is already beautiful. It doesn't need a dam to make it more so. Our argument is substantial enough. The Meramec wasn't dammed because of folks like us in 1978, and I have a fair amount of confidence this will be no different. If it were built, everytime anyone with any conservation values looked upon it, they would think of what was lost, not what is there.

This topic is sure going places, although maybe not the places I wanted it to go LOL. In regard to Gavin's post, I think it's a tricky business deciding which non-native species are trash fish, and which aren't. If conservation is all based on our fishing, it all seems terribly shallow to me. Personally, I am more interested in conserving the system at large than just one species of fish. Let's face it. The native suckerfish are just as important, ecologically speaking, as native smallmouth bass. It just all depends on whether your just interested in conservation to make fishing better, or whether it's the stream that your worried about. That's my viewpoint at least.

I know what you mean. But I would have to disagree that there is a "high fence feel" of trout fishing in Missouri, with the notable exception of the trout parks. The fish in the wild streams are just as difficult to catch as anywhere in this country. But I do have to agree with you on a larger scale. Native species deserve precedence over trout here, for the simple reason that they were here first. Essentially, if there is a conflict between trout and smallmouth bass (or goggle-eye, sunfish, suckers, or any other native species), we must put the interest of the native species first. Lately, I've been trying to focus my attention more on fishing for native species, mostly smallmouth bass. I have found that this kind of fishing is honestly some of the most satisfying that I've ever had. There is something about catching a fish that has blood lines in the particular stream I am fishing that go back for thousands of years. I've found myself getting pretty absorbed into this kind of fishing, maybe even enjoying it more than I ever did trout fishing. I don't know. It's all personal feelings, and nothing more.

Of course I agree the benefits of stocking trout are probably more than the downsides. Really, this post was more about the freestone streams, where native species actually are existant in good numbers. But, now that you guys mention, trout may not have that big of a negative impact in those areas either. I dunno.

Seriously, please no politics. I have a feeling my opinions differ from most of you on this forum, but I just don't feel like arguing about it. Seriously. We have plenty of political forums, this needn't be one. If this sort of political debate becomes regular, I won't be back. The rule is clearly stated. NO POLITICAL POSTS. Lilley, I rarely disagree with you as a moderator. But these are your own rules. Let's not bring presidential politics into this forum.

You've hit it exactly on the head. It took me a while, but I have absolutely fallen in love with this part of the country. Didn't think it would happen, but it did.

Looks like a good book. I may just have to buy it. Good luck. Hope you sell lots of copies.