ozark trout fisher

Ah, I see. I don't know why you're fishing in America at all. I think you would be much more at home on the chalk streams of Britain.

Private canoes I can agree with. But non-motorized (rented) boats are pretty much the entire problem on much of the Riverways, pretty much all of the Jacks and the upper Current as well. Getting rid of the jet boats would help but it wouldn't really scratch the surface of the problem, which is the vast quantities of rented canoes that these rivers see.

I firmly believe that a high quality fly rod is a luxury, not at all a necessity. I do have a St. Croix now that happens to be of pretty good quality, which was given to me as a gift by an older relative, the man who first taught me to fly fish. I use that most of the time now and it is a wonderful rod, but I don't think that I would actually catch any more fish with it than I would with something much less expensive. When I fly fish with my father, he still uses an old $55 Scientific Angler rod and reel that he bought at Walmart, and more often than not out fishes me with the thing. My split cane rod, which I don't use that often but performs quite well when I do, is an old Montague I bought on ebay for $75. I don't try to be cheap (well actually I do, but only by necessity), I've just never seen that "high quality" equipment actually helps me catch more fish. The one thing that is worth spending some money on though is fly line, because that really does affect the casting and mending so much. Whether you have a good or bad fly line in my opinion matters probably more than what rod you're using.

That is why you need a completely random drawing system. At least in the system that I would envision, each party would apply for a permit. If they received it, it could be used for either a rented or private canoe. It would be a MAJOR problem if the canoe rentals managed to get the rights to a certain number of the permits. And that is a significant risk to the permit system that would have to be avoided. I don't know...It's late and tomorrow maybe I'll be able to more clearly consider this. If we could drastically cut down the number of canoes that rentals are allowed to put out on those rivers, to prevent restrictions on the number of private boats, that would be ideal in my mind. But I fear that would be seen too much as a specifically targeted attack on the canoe rental industry, and that may just not work. I don't know exactly what the solution is. But either the canoe rentals are going to have to be very seriously restricted, or a permit system is going to have to be put in place for all river users. I know I'd prefer option number 1. There maybe other things that could be done, but I'm too tired to think of them now. But actually, it seems more likely that nothing will be done in the name of the holy dollar, and these rivers will continue to be raped in the way they are now.

I just don't believe that is the case.Even if everyone did stay within the current laws, there would still be way too many people on those rivers. Much of the popular floating water on the Current (as well as the Jacks Fork) is not really more than a creek. Too many people, not enough space. It just isn't working the way it is now. The Riverways simply cannot handle the number of floaters it sees during the summer without serious damage, both to the experience and the river itself. That is where the permit system comes in (directly). I believe that this regulation could be enforced relatively easily and efficiently. The ban on alcohol would have the same effect (indirectly), cutting down greatly on the party crowd, as well as getting rid of the folks that come to the river just to get drunk and act crazy. But that would admittedly be an enforcement nightmare. I hate the idea of a random permit system, and when people have brought up the idea I have long thought that it is wrong, to be restricting who can float a national river. But I think at this point there isn't much choice if we want to preserve these rivers. It's worth getting on them less, if the stream can be more ecologically healthy and if the experience can be better when we do get the chance to float them. There are plenty of other rivers where such a system will never be needed, so not drawing a permit for a certain day shouldn't be any devastating matter.

But the thing is, whether or not that is the right thing, that certainly will not ever happen. So what is wrong with trying to come up with some reasonable solutions, that might actually be able to be implemented? I do have a few ideas that would immensely help the Ozark National Scenic Riverways. 1. Ban consumption of alcohol while floating. 2. Institute a permit system to limit the number of watercraft that can be on each stretch of river each day...These limits would include both private and rented canoes. This system has been instituted on many popular floating rivers particularly out west, and I believe is key to preserving these rivers. 3. Enforce the rules already in place! I know #1 and #2 would not be popular. But if we want our children to be able to enjoy these rivers as natural ecosystems, as places where people can have a wholesome experience in the future, I believe that these restrictions (or similar ones) MUST be put into place. It's time to start making sacrifices for the good of these rivers, or we're going to lose everything we love about them.

Oh, come on. Real fisherman where Rockies hats on the river Seriously though, nice fish and I'm a little envious. I've been doing quite a bit of fishing lately in some Missouri river tribs, and am gonna head out to one pretty much as soon as finish this post. I have gotten into some white bass and other stuff, but nothing like that. I agree also, don't let anyone tell you that drum are trash fish! Anything that fights like they do is anything but trash.

One would have to expect that it would include all the ribbon sections of streams and Taneycomo. But I agree that "specific trout waters" just is not clear enough.

Awesome! Nice fish. I can't say quite as much about the Cardinals hat though...

Very nice. This sounds a lot like the sort of fishing I've been doing lately on the streams around my new home in central MO. Fun stuff for sure, finding good fish in those marginal little creeks.

It does seem that would be a good place to start. I agree that it wouldn't be popular but I'd be in support. It would fix 90% of the problems on those rivers.

No one is saying that Justin is doing anything wrong. But I didn't think this thread was just about the North Fork, and if someone makes the point that the number of canoes that rentals put on certain rivers should not be further restricted, that's a point that I have the right to disagree with.

I think you're missing the point...No one minds the people who get a little drunk on the river, heck I don't think any of us could care less about people smoking pot on the river so long as they are not super loud, obnoxious, and obscene. It's not people drinking that is a problem, it's just how some yahoos act when they're drunk, having no respect for anyone else on the river. Why I'm spending so much time on this I sure don't know. During the summer, I will continue to visit the rivers that are marginal enough not to attract crowds. But in the mean time, I've got the good water for a few months before the canoe rental crowd completely trashes them again. I don't understand, and am incapable of understanding the way some people treat our rivers, and the way they treat those who want to use the river for what it is meant for, to relax, and enjoy nature. To say that it makes me angry doesn't begin to scratch the surface, so I guess I won't talk about it anymore.

I've tried spinning tackle a couple times there, and for whatever reason the fish have just not showed any interest at all.I guess that they are used to eating midges and scuds and little mayfly nymphs, not minnows and other stuff that spinning lures imitate. But if you try it let us know how it goes. I know what ya' mean about how it's a hassle to fish that creek with a fly rod. All I have is a 9' 5 wt. and it's a battle with the brush every time. But usually worth it.

I can only say that this analogy just seems completely off base. We are talking about rivers, a natural resource, which, depending on your belief either God created or came into being through the forces of geology and hydrology over thousands and/or millions of years.Doesn't matter which of those views you ascribe to, either way, our rivers are a whole lot more sacred than anything established by man. They deserve some preservation and some protection from abuse of the multitudes who see the river as nothing more than a place to party and throw their beer cans. Even if they did not ruin the experience for fisherman and wildlife watchers and lovers of nature, our rivers deserve protection in their own right, as valuable ecoystems that should be respected, and not trashed in the way many of them are now.

Very nice! That's what I love about that stretch of river. You've got two species of trout, big smallies, largemouth, and just about everything else. The Dry Fork does hold fish, but it isn't anything all that special...Mostly largemouth, a few smallies and spots, and panfish. It isn't anywhere near as good as the Meramec but is worth a few casts.

No, it's not that simple. There's usually a middle ground, and this case is no exception. I'm suggesting is that canoe rentals should be somewhat more limited in the number of canoes they can put on the river. I think that even relatively small reductions in the number of boats rentals can put on the river would make a better experience for everyone. I have no desire to see any canoe rentals shut down or put out of business, but I also don't want to see them ruining the very rivers they depend on for their livelihood. I am not implicating you Justin, I have not heard that the North Fork is among the worst aluminum hatch rivers. But their are some rivers that really are being kind of ruined, and at least some small steps to alleviate the numbers of people abusing these rivers are in order.

Maybe I went a little overboard in my post as I tend to do on occasion...And I'm not asking you to apologize. In any case, I don't know much about the NFoW, maybe these things aren't such a big problem there. But when you go down to the Current River, or the Niangua, or the lower Jack's, or the Meramec anytime during the summer (even on a weekday) you would almost have to admit that something is broken. When the river appears as a theme park, and it's bumper boats for as far as the eye can see in any direction just about every day from Memorial Day to Labor Day, then something needs to be done in my opinion. I know these rivers, especially the ones in ONSR have restrictions on the amount of canoes rentals can put on the river, but they just are not stringent enough. The atmosphere on these rivers are being ruined for three+ months out of the year and it isn't doing any good for the ecosystem either, having so much trash thrown around by so many people. I know a good time can be had during summer weekends. I am lucky that my favorite (warm-water) floating stream is thought of as marginal, no one seems to like it much, and it only has one canoe rental that services a stretch of river about 50 miles upstream from where I like to fish. Actually this is precisely why it's my favorite river. But the fact still remains that the vast numbers of canoes being put on almost all of our cream of the crop rivers narrows options incredibly for those of us who are out there to fish, and have a relatively quiet, relaxing time on the river. Our rivers should be places where both the party crowd, and fisherman (as well as people who are out there to enjoy the scenery and wildlife) should be able to get something close to what they want out of the experience. With a little more respect from the party crowd things could be better than they are now. Not that I'm holding breath or anything.

There are quite a few stretches of river that are simply not safe anymore, at least for families. Justin, are you honestly going to tell me that the sort of drunk low lives that we are talking about would really, as a general rule, have the initiative to bring their own canoe, and arrange their own shuttle? Of course they wouldn't! Of course the blame for the sort of situations that Al and Smalliebigs have described cannot at all be attributed to those involved in canoe rentals, but generally they are the folks putting those kind of people on the river. Most of them just wouldn't be there without the services canoe rentals provide. It's something that I think you should consider. I don't care so much about loud, drunk idiots I can deal with them, but what I do care about are the people that make the river simply not a safe place to be. It's why I make every effort to never be on a stretch of river serviced by a canoe rental during the aluminum hatch. I just hate the atmosphere and I think that canoe rentals need to acknowledge they are a big contributor to this. Everyone should be able to enjoy our streams. Without being harassed, without feeling unsafe. And that's not the case now. I don't have kids but if I did there are many, many stretches of river that I just couldn't take them in good conscience. And that's sad, isn't it? I believe that there simply needs to be fairly stringent restrictions on the number of canoes that outfitters can put on our rivers, at least the ones that see the most traffic. This would be nothing new. Many states have instituted this system on their most popular streams. It will probably never happen here because of how much money is in the canoe rental industry, but it's what we need.

I enjoyed your blog post. Very nice fish and scenery pictures, I love the fall colorations on those brown trout you caught! I plan to spend the weekend of the 7-9 of October down there and I'm really looking forward to it.

Pacific is about the lower limit of any good smallmouth fishing on the Meramec. It keeps getting better until about Meramec State Park, at which point it is very good smallmouth water all the way to the headwaters. The Bourbeuse might be an option worth thinking about too. The river above Union, while negatively affected with spotted bass is still worth fishing for smallmouth.Below Union it's only worthwhile if you're targeting spotted and largemouth bass, although that is not to say you can't find the occasional smallmouth. I've done well wade fishing on the Bourbeuse up around the Mill Rock access (there isn't a whole lot of water that you can cover there, but enough). Reikers Ford would be another viable wading option that would be closer, just about 10 minutes outside of Union. There's a nice riffle that holds fish in the summer right at the access and some good deep, rocky water below. If you are willing to work for it there are a couple of nice riffles and pools below Mayers Landing that hold smallmouth that you can wade. But that is more of a summer deal as it pretty much requires swimming across the river to get to the places that I have in mind. If you have a canoe or even so much as an inflatable kayak your options are pretty much unlimited. The Big River is worth thinking about too, but I can't help you much there, having only fished it a couple times and just in the lower reaches below Byrnes Mill where there aren't any smallmouth to speak of.

It shouldn't matter too much. It always feels to me like there is a tournament going on in the parks from March 1 to October 31. Such is the crazy atmosphere of the parks, you either love it, or like me, you have to stay away to keep your sanity.

I would definitely support 1 and 2. The others I am relatively indifferent about. I think that both the Current and Eleven Point already have plenty of opportunities for trout fisherman. On the Current, we have eight miles of great water for fly fishing/catch and release anglers and another 9 for primarily spin and bait fisherman. There's enough for everyone there. It would be wonderful to stock Akers to Pulltite, but unless we're able to produce more hatchery trout somewhere or cut stocking somewhere else, it just isn't going to happen now. Same with browns on the 11 Pt. Sure, it would be nice, but there's already a great rainbow fishery that I think most are very happy with (shocking data in the Blue Ribbon section has shown in the neighborhood of 1000 trout per mile for the last couple of years now, that's an impressive number anywhere) so why mess with a good thing? And I don't think that the MDC would be able to raise enough extra fish anyway to maintain a viable brown trout fishery on the 11 Pt. It's a big river and it would presumably take at the bare minimum a couple thousand browns (probably closer to 5000) a year being stocked for it to be worthwhile.

Sounds like a good trip. I don't get on the 11 Pt. as much as I want, but it seldom disappoints, does it?

Congratulations! Little creeks like that can be a whole lot of fun. It's a little hard to tell, but the fish in question may be a sauger, a very close relative to walleye. I don't really think so though. The coloration is what gives me that idea, but the shape of the head seems to be wrong for anything of the perch family. I don't know what you've got there. I'm sure someone else can shed some light on it though.