jeb

That's like asking me to prove God doesn't exist. It's a purely religious discussion.

http://forums.ozarkanglers.com/topic/26533-dont-start-another-topic-on-climate-change-or-politics-or/ So this thread is against the rules here. Trying to point that out in respect for Lilley.

Are we going to discuss the farcical nature of the global warming/climate change religion again? I thought that was against the rules here?

Congrats Champ! Nice to see nice guys finish well.

It was my goal last year to get better at DSing. And it paid off pretty well for me. I caught the majority of my summer fish last year on it. Once you figure it out and get some good spots to fish it, it can really produce.

My experience agrees with you. Fishing right in the area with the dying shad is low percentage. But sometimes you can find some bites a few 100 feet away on good cover/structure that may be in the area.

While I agree there are actual numbers associated with the "poverty line" as well, there is also verbiage around it that defines where the numbers are set. From this link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States The most common measure of poverty in the United States is the "poverty threshold" set by the U.S. government. This measure recognizes poverty as a lack of those goods and services commonly taken for granted by members of mainstream society. I think we're tripping on symantics here. I agree someone coming from a very poor family would likely have to work harder to get there, they still have the same chance at the American dream that everyone else does. IMO, in large part, it's because we as a nation are making it too easy for them to live comfortably in poverty. I remember when the welfare state really started ramping up, the state I lived in at the time (MN) passed some very generous benefit packages. There were stories on the news shows for a while after that about welfare families moving to the Twin Cities from other states to take advantage of it. See my chickens coming home to roost comments. I'm not happy that the middle class is disappearning, either. I fully understand that we need a strong middle class to make everything else work. But at the same time, I wonder if we just got too used to living too high off the hog while we were the "best" and now we have to adjust. When I was growing up in the 60's and 70's, we had a strong middle class. But that was defined a lot differently. One TV, probably one car, modest house in the 'burbs. Rare to find anyone with expensive boats, RV's, motorcycles, etc. I guess they call that poverty these days. I think the economics of the world stage we are now forced to play on, and the diminished education level of the USA, is going to force us to go back more to that style of middle class. It's sad and it's going to be painful, but I don't see anyway to avoid it. We have to become competitive on the world market or jobs will continue to flow overseas. I think most of us feel the same way there. But we all know they're just a bunch of liars. And as someone else mentioned, the process to get into national office is absolutely corrupting. You can not get there without owing a lot of special interest a lot of favors. The process is completely broken, IMO.

Your definition seems to be that everyone should have an easy chance. Yeah, well, life isn't fair. But everyone still has the same chance. Some might just have to work harder for it, as I said. Some states already do that. But while we're at it, lets cut funding by, say, 30% across the board. It's clear spending more is driving our education level steadily down. It seems logical spending less is a reasonable route to try. You need to do a little research into what the govt defines as poverty/poor. It is currently defined, as I said, as not being able to keep up with the Jones's. Wow, that's quite a stretch! Surely you're just making this stuff for sake of arguement and you don't really believe it? Not sure if that's true, but it is true we have either the highest or among the very highest corporate tax rates in the world. So they must have really been out of whack if they're lower now. Very naive to think tariff's work. We slap some on them, they slap some on us. I think some of the treaties our govt signed make it pretty hard to do anyway. What an odd way to look at things. If there were no jobs, the person wouldn't have any money to spend. Saying because he's got money to spend creates jobs is Alice in Wonderland level thinking. No question that this is the case. As I said earlier, it is the chickens come home to roost. ONe more tax, one more regulation, one more entitlement program, one more golf outing with Tiger Woods. No big deal, right? We reap what we sow.

The old magic bean schtick again? Really? We've been through all the if's and but's in this one before. Billions and billions have been poured into green energy. Almost nothing has come of it. The technology is not there to support it yet. We've been hearing the magic bean stuff on batterys for 20 years or better, yet we are still not seeing the kinds of results needed. Not every problem is solvable. We have things like the common cold to prove that to us every day. Someday we may get there, but pinning the hopes of a nation on it is irresponsible. We should be encouraging all job creators, not just the ones the current ultra-leftist regime panders to.

You can't know that for sure. I'm not against those programs, but Luke may well be in a better place if the programs were administered by, say, a church. We spend among the most money per student of any developed country and our educational standing continues a steep slide. The money is not being spent wisely. http://centerforgloballeadership.wordpress.com/2010/12/08/us-tanks-in-global-education-rankings/ While I agree with you, the track record in DC clearly shows that is not possible. They firmly believe they can just throw money at problems to make them go away, and they are saddling our childern with consequences, economically and otherwise. This is the kind of thing that keeps us from getting anything done. Folks being brainwashed from one side or the press or the other into thinking "Oh, they don't want to pay for any social programs. And I heard they want to kill babies, too" or "Liberals don't care at all about the future of the country, they only care about their giveaway program.". All those kinds of views do is keep us grazing in the govt's pastures.

Waking up a couple of month old thread here. Talked to my buddy last night that works at the plant. They just started a 10 week shutdown for maint. So the lake is fixing to cool of a bunch in the next few weeks! But he was saying this is an odd shutdown for them. Normally, it's a flurry of activity to get everything 100%. Now, they're looking much closer at what really needs maint and what can possibly wait, since there is a lot of uncertainty about if the plant will remain open. He said the politicians and big money are wrestling around in Little Rock to decide the plants future. But one thing seems certain, if the politicians shut them down from using coal, the plant will close, not convert to gas. They will likely build a new plant, just not in Arkansas as the state is very power unfriendly. Hard to believe that would be true about Arkansas, but I guess politics trumps jobs. Would impact something near 500 jobs directly counting contractors, not to mention put a hurting on Gentry's economy, and costing the state a lot of taxes from those lost jobs and closed business.

Apparently in your world, a job creator is someone who only hires and never lets folks go. That's not reality, especially in a cyclic and weather dependent trade like construction. You need to thank both your employer and the folks that pay/employ them. And on up the chain. Saying they didn't create the job because the demand was there anyway is naive. They took a risk and started a business and hired people to do work. Nobody said they "alone can provide". It's up to the person willing to take the chance and willing to deal with all the trials and tribulations of running a company. Most of the small businesses don't make it, but at least they're trying. It's blindingly obvious that you have to a healthy, growing economy to drive that engine ever forward. But that does not mean the job creators just fell into it and are swimming in others peoples money, either. Increasing regulations, Obama-don't-Care health care costs, increased taxes, federal fiscal mismanagement, etc are all driving those jobs overseas. I'm not saying we should turn our backs and let folks dump waste into our rivers. But we have to treat businesses like allies instead of enemies like the current administration is doing.

Everyone does have the same chance, some might have to work harder at it. There are also many examples of childern that come out of "stable" homes that are complete failures. It works both ways. Cost of living has nothing to do with it. The average person in poverty in the USA is by no means poor. The definition of poverty and poor that the govt uses is very different than what common sense tells us it should mean. Defining those based on not being able to keep up with the Jones', as the govt does, is ludicrous. Poverty means not being able to feed your family, not that you have to make do with a used car because you can't afford a new one.

Of course not. You can live there, too. It's like asking if it's wrong to make a good salary. If someone works hard, takes risk, takes care of their money and does well for themselves and their family, it is called the American Way and it is a large part of what made this country the great nation that it once was. Everyone has this same chance. There are countless stories of folks that have gone from rags to riches by working hard. Here is a great example of that. Sorry, it's a long video, but well worth the 30 minutes:

The class warfare part of your statement has nothing to do with it. There will always be folks that have more than you, sometimes much more, in any society. And there are lots of people living comfortably, in part or in whole because of govt largess. What poverty means in the USA. From the link: As scholar James Q. Wilson has stated, “The poorest Americans today live a better life than all but the richest persons a hundred years ago.”[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker. The home of the typical poor family was not overcrowded and was in good repair. In fact, the typical poor American had more living space than the average European. The typical poor American family was also able to obtain medical care when needed. By its own report, the typical family was not hungry and had sufficient funds during the past year to meet all essential needs. That's what we called middle class when I was growing up in the 60's and 70's. We get down to making the hard decisions. Get the govt out of the way of job creators. We make personal responsibility the norm instead of the exception. We get back to what made this country great, and a big part of that was being able to fail. Well, the chickens have come home to roost. All these years of "well, a little more regulation and a few more taxes won't hurt all these businesses" has finally added up. Like your notion that giving a few million dollars to Syria is no big deal since it's such a small amount. And the overly generous welfare state gone wild. It all adds up! When the govt is borrowing something like 45 cents of every dollar they spend year in and year out, all while continuing to build road blocks for businesses, disaster is all that lies ahead.

I agree about unintended consequences being an issue here, but I have a different take on it. I look at things like overly generous benefits and overly long (or lifetime) ability to collect them as something that causes people not to take jobs that they might deem "beneath" them, or not look as hard to find a job that might involve a hardship like relocating, etc. And things even as simple as raising the minimum wage, or as big as giving away the store on health care, as causing jobs to continue to flow overseas. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions. As far as comparing the govt debt to a business, please! The business makes something that has a chance of being profitable. If they don't make a profit, sooner or later, they go out of business. If the govt was held to that standard, they'd have been closed down years ago. As Quillback says, when folks start to get a little less willing to borrow us money for nothing and the interest/inflation starts to spike, as it must sooner or later, the ultimate bubble is going to burst. Seems better to try and start taking on some of that pain now rather than all of it later.

Beaver really is a stunningly beautiful lake to fish. I never tire of the scenery. But TR is a close 2nd. We've fished both recently and, like you found, the patterns that work on TR do not automatically work on Beaver. You'd think they would since they're sister lakes, but they sure fish differently. Glad you got into a good pattern and, as usual, thanks for sharing.

And the very next story was about John Kerry giving money away to Syria. Of the Sheeple, for the Sheeple.

Burr is right. I was on Beaver yesterday for 3 hours. Not a fun day, colder than the day before on TR, so the ice was forming in the guides the whole time. Not much fun.

Yeah, a lot more boat traffic that either of us expected. Is there a tourney coming up? It was nice to finally see a shad die off. We've had some great fishing on Beaver and TR when the shad kill kicks in. So maybe we'll finally get the big fish bite going on. I wore a LOT of clothes today. Thought I was over dressed on the way to the lake, but I was darn glad I had it all on. I lived in MN for 35 years, and I moved south because of the cold up there. So I like to be warm when it's cold out now.

Here's a TackleTour article about NFC/Edge. Follow the link in the first paragraph for a great story about Gary's history in the industry. http://tackletour.com/reviewedgefishing.html

Yeah, he comes across that way. My experience, and his rep on some of the internet forums, belies that impression, though. Most of the problems were directly caused or made worse by Trey himself, IMO. He was very involved in the whole deal.

I understand the confusion. He does have a few irons in the fire. But I think his premier blanks are the NFC (North Fork Tackle) ones. He said the NFC blanks he supplies to Kistler are a different makeup, and he implied somewhat inferior, to the ones he is using in his rods. I had a Kistler custom rod made late last year on the NFC blank. It's very good, pretty much on par with my NRX's for sensitivity. I'll never do business with Kistler again, though. They screwed the rod up 3 times and refused to fix their own mistakes the 3rd time. Said "take it or leave it, even though we know it's our error". Disgusting. I kept it only because I wanted to fish the new Loomis blank. I sure wish I knew Edge was going to start selling customs when I made that decision!

Gary's new rod company is called Edge Rods.

I chatted with Gary Loomis at Edge rods booth for about 30 minutes. Such a wealth of knowledge and drive for excellence! Really the highlight of the exhibt for me. His drop shot casting rod was really cool. Talking with Gary Dobyn's was neat too, but he was a little more guarded with his information. GL calls a spade a spade! Very cool show, though. I'd only been to the Beaver Lake FLW show before this one, and this is an orders of magnitude bigger deal. Probably headed back over today as the wife wants to check it out, too. Good to see Ike and VanDam doing well! Had to be a darn chilly day on the lake, though.