troutfiend1985

Tim, I really, really don't want to get into this debate because there really isn't enough out there to sway me to one side or the other. If what you believe is right, then the parties pushing for greener energy have really screwed up on advertising this data, especially when we have the economy that is hurting the way it is right now. A simple, "we could employ more people in America from switching energy plus aid the environment" is a heck of a lot more appealing than "we could aid the environment(plus you'll have to switch your car)." Do you see what I'm saying Tim? I'm not bashing your opinion, and there is plenty of data out there that supports this, but that political party which supports it has an agenda as well(just like the other side). Look, I'm not defending big oil, I'm just trying to tell you this is a rat race and really I don't care which rat comes in first or second. Why? Because my opinion alone is not enough to change anything, and because I can't personally change it, I'm not going to get wrapped up in it. Also, it's easy to mis-inform people, and both sides are probably guilty of this. And it really seems that electric cars are coming, and energy alternatives are starting to become more and more prevelent. I just saw your last post, what I was saying is that money=jobs. The United States has alot of natural renewable resources, and if they would employ US citizens, then they could advertise this as being a way of creating capital for the US, and jobs for citizens.

Maybe this is why politics isn't allowed on this forum. . . But while I have a chance let me put something out there. Look at where CNN, Fox and all the major news sources are getting backing from, where do you think it is? Right, either the democrats or republicans, no big secret and you can tell by watching both sides god awful journalism that there is favoritism to one side or the other. So stop with the holier than thou bashing and stop with the references to talking heads, I’m sure both sides have embarrassments that Lilley won’t let me talk about. So let’s get to this global warming debate, and I can start by saying we should stop. Why? Because neither side has irrefutable evidence that man made Co2 emissions are/aren't the direct and major cause to the warming of the earth of late. Yes, one side can point and say look at our recent evidence, shouldn't this concern you? And the other side counters with the earth goes in cycles and Co2 is produced in large quantities through natural decay. I get it, same bullshit and finger pointing, no evidence that is beyond a reasonable doubt on either side and both sides probably have economic agendas in this race(don’t tell me that I’m the first one to think of blue and red chasing money in an issue). Personally, I don't care whether you are a democrat, republican, libertarian, or an independent cynic like myself, what matters is what is best for the long run. I hate it when people can't see both sides on an issue that is as gray as this one, and I've seen a lot of gray in my short 25 years. Look, why not switch to wind power? It would make the US money and for that cause alone it is a good idea. I've read that Kansas and the Midwest are the equivalent to the Saudi Arabia of wind, so what's so bad with that? The reason we have this argument isn't common sense, no it's arbitrary political lines. If one side would just say "Hey, we're a capitalist society and we can make a crap ton of money off of converting wind/solar/geothermal/cow poop energy and we could increase jobs at the same time." then there would be no gripe. Keep throwing rocks like Israelis and Palestinians, but the middle ground is money, money makes sense(or cents) and that is where I'm at on this issue.

I think that would be one large fish fry followed by a quick call to the paramedics

Snow and homework have got me thinking about spring, and wondering about new fishing opportunities. So I had a few questions The first is if anyone ever fishes the creeks in and around James A. Reed. I've seen them on the MDC maps but I just don't know if they hold any fish, bluegills or sunfish would do for me. The second is if the creek right by bass pro in Independence is public or private. Any help would be appreciated.

HB 2037 -- Obstruction of Justice Sponsor: Bringer This bill creates the crime of obstruction of justice when a person, with the intent to prevent the apprehension or obstruct the prosecution or defense of any person, knowingly: (1) Destroys, alters, conceals, or disguises physical evidence; plants false evidence; or furnishes false information; (2) Induces a witness with information on the subject at issue to leave the state or conceal himself or herself; or (3) Possesses information on the subject at issue and leaves the state or conceals himself or herself. Anyone committing the crime will be guilty of a class A misdemeanor unless the person obstructs the prosecution or defense of a felony in which case he or she will be guilty of a class D felony. Problem is Missouri hasn't passed this yet, which really blows my mind.

That's a good point, but I think I was meaning more when the cat was not stalking you. However I have a question for this forum, is there any non-lethal ways to defend yourself from Mountain Lions? Does bear spray work? And Justin, you're totally in the right here. I would shoot the cat too if it saw me as a cheeseburger.

Actually, from what I have heard they say you can back off from one, but they advise you to do it slowly and not turn your back to it. Just what I have heard.

It would have to take a lot of frustration to do something like this, but I can tell you first hand(or second hand depending on how you view my brother, I saw his reaction to it) how embarrassing it is to have an authority basically reject your answer and nearly call you stupid in the process. The MDC has no business telling people these animal sightings are "Yellow Labs" when they do no feild work on the report. It is quite demoralizing to hear of such stories, and I know that my brother isn't the only one(although he can rest assurred now that two have been killed, one only a week or so after his sighting). I think that was the time that I really lost respect for the MDC, and then to have them handle this situation in the botched manner that they have only iced the cake. JD, I would think that if the MDC told these people over and over that it was a large dog on their property that they were seeing that it would really start to irritate them. To the point of shooting one? Well, I don't know.

Don't you also need a trout tag just to fish in the trophy area of Taney?

I noticed that too. And it is a very curious fact. I was wondering how that could have happened, but I thought maybe I was just noticing too much. To me, it looked like the person was either shooting from an elevated position, or the cat had its head down. The reports seem to say that this was some sort of Coyote hunt, and I'm not sure how people do these as I have never been on one.

I sent an email to MDC last night. I would post it, but I'm not sure that would be ethical. I was surprised to see a response email, although the email sent to me was boilerplate at best. Outside is right on point here, it is surprising how crummy of a response the MDC has to this as there is no apparent plan in place. Randall, what fact or set of facts makes you think that there is not enough evidence to convict? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want an answer from someone who sees these facts differently than I do. Usually, an affirmative defense, such as self defense, is the defendants burden to prove. So I would think that the state would be well within its powers to prosecute. But, I don't make the decisions.

I think that if you're just starting, an easy pattern like a crackleback is a great way to go. I would also suggest learning how to tie a scud, as they are simple and very productive in Missouri, the materials are cheap and the fly is effective. I still remember my first trout on a fly that I tied, it was at Roaring River and the fish must have be dumber than rocks. I think it was a black wooly worm which had enough hackle on it to float it. Needless to say I was hooked.

I think I'm in the same boat as you, last thing I want is precedent. The thing that bothers me is releasing to the press on the same day that the story breaks that no charges are planned on being filed. I like your idea of suspension of hunting privileges, and I think that is a fair thing.

And that is what I'm saying, against the law. As it currently stands, the excuse is if you feel "threatened" which is an ambiguous standard at best. But let me put it this way, 12 hunters and only one shot? Really? If this cat was threatening them then I would expect to see that carcass loaded with bullets and half falling apart. But no, there is one clean shot to the head, and that indicates either a super human shooter or a guy who really wasn't that scared of this animal. Randall brought up the difficulties of prosecuting this case, and Randall I agree with you to a point but there are some things the MDC has done that just don't make sense. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard for the moving party to convict, but here the MDC released on the same day it happened that no charges were filed. That just blows my mind, because the only standard that needs to be met in order to charge is Probable Casue that a crime occured, and here that standard has been met. Yes, the case has some weak spots, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that tends to point to idea that these people were not threatened(12 hunters, one head shot). And also, alot of these stories sound good or innocent until charges are filed. The Ray County shooting would have surely been this way, but MDC did not press charges, and personally I think that was a huge mistake. If MDC does not take action it merely encourages people to shoot these animals and say "self defense." I have a feeling that we will hear more of these situations in the future unless MDC does something.

Lilley: Here's all the info I have. I guess the MDC was called to an Amish farm. There was some sort of event where the people were scavenging for Coyotes. Nearly 100 hunters were on the land at the time and 12 of the hunters saw the cat. No dogs were with the hunters. There is a video on this site showing the lion; http://www.heartlandconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=571117 Apparently the lion was shot in the head, as they show the gun shot wound. I don't know about hunting/shooting, but I do know how adrenaline can affect a person, and to me it seems that this guy must have been a good shot if he was in fear that the lion would attack him. Also the fact that there was 100 people with guns would tend to make me think that there was enough people around to scare this animal, and most of these cats are not out to kill humans. I also think that alot of people on this forum, including myself, have had bad experiences with the MDC and reporting mountain lion sightings(the Yellow Lab). And the MDC didn't really do an outstanding job on the last incident in Ray County. Add these facts up, and given this incident and I think some people are growing frustrated with what is going on.

One for individual fish, followed by six.

That is pretty funny. I can't say that I am a southpark fan, but I bet that some of this happens. Shame too, talking about protecting wildlife ends up with people questioning your political affiliations. Look, right is right and how the MDC handles the mountain lions is 180 degrees from right. JD, I can't understand how someone could justify shooting a creature like this. I hope that some political pressure comes down on the MDC for their compliance with this poaching, and I am meaning poaching. I am usually not a fan of these activists, but here would be a good time for some activists to come in and draw some attention on the MDC.

Al, I couldn't agree more, and this is why I was so upset when the MDC did nothing with the first shooting in Richmond. Self defense is such an easy claim because Missouri states that shooting the animal is acceptable if you feel threatened. MDC really, really needs to get off their arse and do something with this situation, like prosecuting.

I just don't see any justification in either of these cases to shoot the animal. What ever happened to slowly trying to back away or making noises to scare it off? The only animal I fear in our outdoors is the two legged type.

The MDC is just about worthless on this one. They really need to define what threatened is under the wildlife code. Is seeing a mountain lion being threatened by one? It seems that is what the MDC is saying, and if that is what "threatened" is, then they might as well take the protective status off of the mountain lion.

Are sculpins legal for bait?? I've heard that draws them out, however no clue if its legal.

Thanks Tim.

Similar to how I'll be avoiding Sunburst Ranch this summer on a road trip? Be a butt, but don't think that representing your place of business stops at 5.

I agree to that, too bad they're gone. Never did get one as they stopped making them before I was really fishing.

Outside, you sure place alot of faith in the fishing public for a guy who thinks that people won't even clean their felt boots after fishing. So you're telling me people won't target reds? I bet you that happens, and I know that people have walked through them as I have seen it happen before a few years back. As with the barbless hooks, a brick isn't a wall. On a blue ribbon stream, or any other stream, 1-3%=1-3%. You can't instantly improve a fishery with one small regulation changes, its the combination of effective enforcement and sensible regulations that further conservation. One brick at a time. . . Trout die, that's one of the biggest truisms on earth. But barbless hooks are easier to remove and cause less trauma. If calling the Blue ribbon streams C&R is too big of a regulatory headache, and this is the justification that MDC actually uses, then MDC needs to hang up their hat. Why? Part of their duty is enforce/create their own regulations. Yes, there is more than one way to skin a cat, excpet Arkansas' way seems to be better at skinning this perverbial cat.