Big O Born In Kneya?

[Al Agnew]

I agree that it's probably not a good idea to argue politics in this forum at this point, although IF we could keep it both civil and factual it could actually do some good. Few people who have their minds made up will ever change them, but if somebody hasn't decided, FACTUAL information might help. That's why I was glad that Okieflyfisher posted the Snopes link. Please, instead of just repeating the mantra that Obama will raise your taxes, read the link and see what he has and has NOT proposed. There is way too much simplistic and misleading "info" being thrown around on the internet (and on the average talk radio show) about both candidates' positions, just an extension of the 30 second soundbytes that dominate political "discussion" these days. "Ugh. Obama raise taxes! Bad!" "Ugh. McCain keep troops in Iraq 100 years. Bad!"

[Chief Grey Bear]

Other parts of the Brady Bill banned imports of assault weapons like the AK-47 and the Heckler and Koch firearms and certain shotguns deemed for Law Enforcement only. It banned the High Capacity Mags for both handguns and rifles. It started mandatory background checks for handguns and registration of all firearms thru a check in procedure. This background check was a good thing and I never had a problem with it after it got all the kinks out. Helps keep those that can't own firearms from getting them.

Ok, I will give you those points as fact even though I haven't looked them up. It sounds reasonable to me. Do you use any of those firearms you listed to hunt with? Remember we are speaking of assault weapons.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I know that the war in Iraq is a hard thing. But if we pull out without securing that govt., and the mullahs take over and cut off the worlds oil supply, gas will go to $10 or more a gallon. THAT is a fact.

Can you list your source for this fact?

[Phil Lilley]

Be nice Thom

[Thom]

Post deleted by poster. Won't make this mistake again

[Phil Lilley]

Thanks Thom

[Chief Grey Bear]

Good post Al. I was thinking the same thing today. I am not going to change JD's mind nor will he change mine. But it will be shown to him and others on here that the Democratic party is not evil party of Satan that media and republicans make it out to be. I listen to Rush and Beck everyday on the radio and I watch Hannity and Colmes every evening and I cannot for the life of me figure out anyone with the least bit of common sense believes anything that comes out of their mouths. Its worse than listening to a group of third graders on the playground.

Anyway the point is, do a little research. Find the truth. In fact if you do listen to those programs listed, if nothing else observe and listen how the host conduct themselves. None of them are very professional in my opinon. Although I will say Hannity is not near as juvinile as the other two. But he will cut you off the second you don't answer the way he wants you to.

JD - I am enjoying this debate we have and this just what I think it is, an honest to goodness debate between to internet friends that share in the same outdoor interest.

[jdmidwest]

I agree also Chief, the reason I keep on with this is to prove to others on here ( and Phil ) that you can debate politics without getting personal. And it does have an effect on what we as sportsman have in common to look forward to in the future. I don't believe that either party is evil, the whole system is ruined and flawed. The great part about it is that it is still the best system in the world. I would like to vote for a person based on morals and character and believe that he will do the best job. I just can't seem to find them on the ballots lately. I can never find many on the Democratic side that stands up for the hunters and fishermen so I tend to lean toward the Republican side.

To answer your question, I hunt with an AR-15 post ban 223 rifle. I have taken coyote, deer, ground hogs, and feral dogs with it. I have shot squirrels with it using the .22 caliber conversion. The Ruger 10-22 I own was affected by the ban, I could not purchase a folding stock or a magazine larger than 30 rounds, both of which I owned and used prior to the ban. I owned a HK-93 and planned on buying more of their fine rifles, they went sky high and I could not afford them. My pistols were limited to 10 rounds during the ban unless you wanted to buy cheap mags for them. I was starting a pretty good collection till the Brady Bill banned import of a lot of nice functional, fun to shoot guns. Remember the Uzi and Mac 10? They were fun on the range and fairly cheap before Brady.

The thing with gun control nuts is that they portray all firearms as bad and killers. Fact is, not alot of honest, law abiding citizens that are sober and mentally stable kill people with firearms unless a criminal is breaking into their house or carjacking their car or hurting their loved ones. Its the criminals that have stolen guns that commit the firearms violations. The laws in place already make it illegal for them to do what they do. The background checks and training and keeping guns out of kids hands are all good and I support it 100 percent.

Back to this election, do you think Obama will ever show up at a NRA banquet, BASS tourney, WTF banquet and try to drum up votes? I gotta vote for the thing I like the most, hunting and fishing...

[Chief Grey Bear]

No he won't. You will never see a Demo at an NRA convention. I think it is in the nra constitution. Even though demo's own and use firearms. Clinton is great example. He spent his youth duck hunting and I believe still does. I believe even Jimmy Carter spent time in his youth as an avid hunter.

But Obama did not come from a hunting background. He spent the majority of his youth in another country before moving back to the U.S. to go to high school in Hawaii.

Nor I don't believe McCain had much, if any, of a hunting background either. Though he will appear at the nra, as all republican canidates do, it will be as you say, only to get votes.

[Danoinark]

The ppl who rule over there do not care if their ppl suffer so if they want to hurt the USA, shutting off the oil will do it.

Nay, Nay Mr. Kirk....The oil mullah's are not that stupid my friend. They enjoy the money, and its all about greed. Oil is cut off to the US and its allies and their money doesn't flow as fast as the oil. Just look what happened when the demand for gasoline in America went DOWN the last few months....the PRICE went down.

Dano