What Do You Think?

[tgard27]

From reading the recent posts, it seems that there is a concensus of concern over this stream. I have to agree with the posts from Ollie in that the town of Neosho needs to act on these concerns that anglers like ourselves have. I wonder if Neosho knows of our concerns or is aware that there is a problem with the way that the stream is managed. It seems to me that this stream should be a center for this town as there are people that travel from Kansas City and Tulsa for no other reason than the fact that there is a trout stream there. The problem is that people like myself will end up driving an extra hour or so because of the neglect that this stream recieves from litter and over harvesting by locals. I wonder if we could get together in a group and address this issue at a city meeting. Does anybody think that meeting with the city about these issues would work? Any suggestions on what we could do to help push these issues with the city? Im afraid that expressing concerns between ourselves does not do much good as anyone who fishes this stream is well aware of the situation that it is in and unless we do something, I'm afraid that this creek will not improve.

[purefish]

From reading the recent posts, it seems that there is a concensus of concern over this stream. I have to agree with the posts from Ollie in that the town of Neosho needs to act on these concerns that anglers like ourselves have. I wonder if Neosho knows of our concerns or is aware that there is a problem with the way that the stream is managed. It seems to me that this stream should be a center for this town as there are people that travel from Kansas City and Tulsa for no other reason than the fact that there is a trout stream there. The problem is that people like myself will end up driving an extra hour or so because of the neglect that this stream recieves from litter and over harvesting by locals. I wonder if we could get together in a group and address this issue at a city meeting. Does anybody think that meeting with the city about these issues would work? Any suggestions on what we could do to help push these issues with the city? Im afraid that expressing concerns between ourselves does not do much good as anyone who fishes this stream is well aware of the situation that it is in and unless we do something, I'm afraid that this creek will not improve.

I agree that the stream could be better managed and clean up could be more of a priority. The upper end of the stream from the low water bridge to the 86 bridge is borderline at best and the rest of the stream is pretty embarrassing in my opinion. Having lived in southwest Missouri my whole life and teaching in Joplin now, I understand that there is not much that I can do to change the culture that is causing this kind of behavior e. g. poaching and littering. Going to the city with a plan would not really solve the problem even if they did adopt it with great intentions. The people of Neosho are not interested in being told what to do by a bunch of us "outsiders" and I also do not think they are too concerned about building a world class trout fishery. I like your intention but I think that calling the poaching hotline and picking up some trash each time we go is probably the best we can do.

[tgard27]

The people of Neosho are not interested in being told what to do by a bunch of us "outsiders" and I also do not think they are too concerned about building a world class trout fishery. I like your intention but I think that calling the poaching hotline and picking up some trash each time we go is probably the best we can do.

Thanks for the response. I am a bit surprised that only one person responded to this post as in the last post there were several people concerned over this topic. It makes me wonder if we are more interested in fishing and simply turning a blind eye to the situation than to address the situation with the town and risk failure. I am not trying to offend anyone with that statement; if fishing is the extent of your interest to this creek then that is fine and I have no problem with it. But to say that there is no hope for this stream and that we are outsiders to Neosho comes across as being incorrect. We are not outsiders due to the fact that the money that is used to stock these trout comes from Missouri state taxes and revenues. We also bring in revenue when we stop at a restaurant in town and when we purchase anything in Neosho that we wouldn't have bought if we weren't there for any other reason than Hickory. A lot of the people who post on here would not go to Neosho for any other reason than Hickory Creek. Neosho is missing out big here; Hickory Creek could be a nice trout stream and attract more people to Neosho because of an improved management of this area which would bring a slight increase of revenue for the city.

To continue what we are currently doing is to request the same results that we are receiving right now. Unless someone comes to this situation with a different course of action than what we are currently doing, this situation will never become better and all that we can hope for is a sustained level of mediocrity from a stream that possess potential for being so much better. I am not saying that this would be easy and yes, we do risk failure by approaching the city, but failure should be the last thing that we should concern ourselves with right now.

I am sorry that this comes out as a rant and I am not meaning to hurt any feelings, but I really like this stream and feel that the only way of improving Hickory is to organize and combine our effort. I can also understand how this might be too much with work and family, but it is something to be considered.

Travis

[Buzz]

I am a bit surprised that only one person responded to this post as in the last post there were several people concerned over this topic. It makes me wonder if we are more interested in fishing and simply turning a blind eye to the situation than to address the situation with the town and risk failure. I am not trying to offend anyone with that statement; if fishing is the extent of your interest to this creek then that is fine and I have no problem with it. But to say that there is no hope for this stream and that we are outsiders to Neosho comes across as being incorrect. We are not outsiders due to the fact that the money that is used to stock these trout comes from Missouri state taxes and revenues. We also bring in revenue when we stop at a restaurant in town and when we purchase anything in Neosho that we wouldn't have bought if we weren't there for any other reason than Hickory. A lot of the people who post on here would not go to Neosho for any other reason than Hickory Creek. Neosho is missing out big here; Hickory Creek could be a nice trout stream and attract more people to Neosho because of an improved management of this area which would bring a slight increase of revenue for the city.

To continue what we are currently doing is to request the same results that we are receiving right now. Unless someone comes to this situation with a different course of action than what we are currently doing, this situation will never become better and all that we can hope for is a sustained level of mediocrity from a stream that possess potential for being so much better. I am not saying that this would be easy and yes, we do risk failure by approaching the city, but failure should be the last thing that we should concern ourselves with right now.

I am sorry that this comes out as a rant and I am not meaning to hurt any feelings, but I really like this stream and feel that the only way of improving Hickory is to organize and combine our effort. I can also understand how this might be too much with work and family, but it is something to be considered.

Travis

Hey Travis,

No offense taken. I didn't get on the forum Sunday and I guess I missed this post yesterday. So I will respond now. I have been making posts such as yours for a while now and I agree that we need to do more than just talk about it. I think I will make a few phone calls this week to find out who we need to take this to. When I find out something I'll post it and we can proceed from there. There are a few of us who are locals and I know there are many more that I don't know personally who might want to get involved with this. I really don't think the city has any idea of the amount of money that can be generated or lost if not done properly.I really think that they under estimate what they have in their own backyard. We'll just have to see what happens.

[Flysmallie]

I have never fished Hickory so I haven't witnessed the problems, but I understand what you guys are wanting to do. My thought would be to start a Stream Team. I don't know much about these either but it could be used as a platform to put some extra pressure on the city to do the right thing. Scheduling a cleanup on the stream and posting it here would probably bring many volunteers. Through the stream team you could also conduct water quality samples that could also put more pressure on the city to do the right thing.

As far as over harvesting, good luck. It seems the best way to cut down on this is through education. It appears the Smallmouth Alliance has had some success with their free the fighter signs at popular accesses. Something like that could be done to educate the public so they understand the problems of over harvesting. Of course then you have people that just don't care, I see them all the time.

[Gavin]

I'd agree with Flysmallie...start a stream team and do a cleanup, and invite a reporter from the local paper to come out and write a story about it. Cheers.

[denjac]

I dont think Neosho even has a local fly/bait shop except WalMart. Enforcement or lack of is the problem down there. I wonder if illegals dont get fishing permits as it might throw up a red flag as to there status in the U.S.? I guess keeping a phone handy and reporting any poaching, littering ect might be a start. I would bypass the city and go to the local newspaper with the problem. Maybe some embaresment might get things going.

[fly2fish]

I think Leonard organized a clean up day on Hickory back in March of 2007. I believe the city even provided lunch.

[tgard27]

I like the idea of creating a stream team and, although I am no friend of the press, a little publicity on this issue may not hurt. But here comes the hard part, it is going to take more than Buzz and I to make a change here. Its not going to work for Two people to take on a town that has 10,505 people. My question is, if we set up a stream team how many people would be interested in participating in it? I also think that we can do something right now without organizing; when you go fishing and see trash and waste and poachers, take a picture. If we can accumulate some pictures now, then we can have some evidence that will help us down the road. Finally, we can't just bypass the city of Neosho. The stream lies inside of Morse Park and if we try to make a long term change to Hickory then the town has to be onboard with it. This project might start out as just us, but I hope that we can get the town involved with the effort as well. If we can get Neosho to take pride in what they could have then I think that we have a shot. If anyone is interested in the idea of a stream team let me know. If anyone has anymore ideas, please share them! We have already had some good ideas posted so lets keep on it. Travis

[MarkinKC]

I like the idea of creating a stream team and, although I am no friend of the press, a little publicity on this issue may not hurt. But here comes the hard part, it is going to take more than Buzz and I to make a change here. Its not going to work for Two people to take on a town that has 10,505 people. My question is, if we set up a stream team how many people would be interested in participating in it? I also think that we can do something right now without organizing; when you go fishing and see trash and waste and poachers, take a picture. If we can accumulate some pictures now, then we can have some evidence that will help us down the road. Finally, we can't just bypass the city of Neosho. The stream lies inside of Morse Park and if we try to make a long term change to Hickory then the town has to be onboard with it. This project might start out as just us, but I hope that we can get the town involved with the effort as well. If we can get Neosho to take pride in what they could have then I think that we have a shot. If anyone is interested in the idea of a stream team let me know. If anyone has anymore ideas, please share them! We have already had some good ideas posted so lets keep on it. Travis

A number of us have complained about Hickory, so my hat's off to Travis for proposing action. I was out of town for a week and just reading this today. As I write I have the benefit of several excellent ideas already shared here. More and better signage might be helpful, to include some signs that list the number to report poaching. This might cause a few poachers to have second thoughts. I may be kidding myself here, but a few trash containers nearer the stream might help too. When I pick up trash one of the first things I notice is there are few places to deposit it. I don't recall any by some of the places you'd expect to find them, such as next to the benches along the stream.

The idea of lining up partners in Neosho is a good one. I understand the inclination to bypass the city - they have not exactly distinguished themselves when it comes to keeping the stream area and park clean. Having experienced my own frustrations about that, the idea of embarrassing them in the newspaper is tempting to me as well. That would likely erect a barrier to any future cooperation with the city however. Another approach might be to acknowledge that they are probably short-staffed (aren't we all these days?), make an offer to help, and discuss how we could contribute. I do agree with purefish in that we must be sensitive about being viewed as "outsiders". Clearly I fit into the outsider category. Should attempts to partner with the city prove unproductive, we could always "escalate" the issue via a newspaper expose'.

Good idea by Flysmallie on the team, taking water samples, etc. Using the newspaper in a positive way, we could promote the formation of the Hickory Creek Stream Team and chronicle the first clean-up. Local papers are always looking for topics or events to write about, so coverage should not be a problem. The tone should be positive, i.e. what a great local resource, draws folks from other communities to the city thereby increasing revenue, etc. Some photos and/or descriptions of the amount and type of trash collected has impact. An invitation contained in the newspaper article to join the team would likely result in new members from within Neosho, and that would be where the strength lies.

There is a good chance that we could get the Hickory Creek Stream Team profiled in the MDC Conservationist magazine. I see articles about them periodically, and the fact that this stream is somewhat unique, in a municipality and stocked by MDC, might increase our chance for success. It is always a good idea to promote what you are working on when the opportunity is there. It can generate enthusiasm from others, as well as offers of help or resources that might not be otherwise available.

Understand that active participation can be more challenging for those of us that live in other parts of the state, but I think we have seen from the posts that there is a lot of interest in helping this little stream. I'd join the stream team and drive 3 hours one way to participate in clean-ups. Perhaps I could also contribute by drafting letters from the team, correspondence to the city of Neosho, etc. I want to help.

MarkinKC