Ethanol In Gas

[grizwilson]

It was the Former Governor of Missouri who pushed and signed the 10% requirement, there are some price triggers etc. His brother is in the business of starting ethanol plants, wonder why he pushed the stuff?

[Cajunangler]

Maybe since I am from Louisiana (or as I like to say Looziana), I assumed everyone up here new when a govenor does something like mandate ethanol in gas all you have to do is follow the money trail. It is also rather odd that he made this mandate then decided he had served long enough as governor. I didn't give Nixon my vote but I might consider giving it to him next time if he could get that law repealed.

As to how to handle ethanol in our fuel tanks, I think we simply need to make sure we keep fresh fuel in them and don't let it sit longer than a few weeks wihtout using. At least that is the main reason I am telling my wife why I need to fish so much.

Yall let me know it that one works for any of you.

[Maggiesmaster]

Maybe since I am from Louisiana (or as I like to say Looziana), I assumed everyone up here new when a govenor does something like mandate ethanol in gas all you have to do is follow the money trail. It is also rather odd that he made this mandate then decided he had served long enough as governor. I didn't give Nixon my vote but I might consider giving it to him next time if he could get that law repealed.

As to how to handle ethanol in our fuel tanks, I think we simply need to make sure we keep fresh fuel in them and don't let it sit longer than a few weeks wihtout using. At least that is the main reason I am telling my wife why I need to fish so much.

Yall let me know it that one works for any of you.

Arkansas law requires that gasoline pumps be labeled if they contain ethanol. So far, I've found an Exxon station and a couple more that sell 'straight' gasoline. I use that in my outboards and small engines. Mine are older models and the ethanol might damage the fuel lines.

[skeeter]

As I have posted before on this board, Ethanol is the " Devil's Brew" when mixed with gasoline. It is also the biggest "SCAM" ever forced on Missouri and other State's residents by local government.

Small engine shops locally are advising all customers using outdoor power equipment manufactured in any year to use 91 octane only as the stations around Kimberling City have no Ethanol in their 91 octane. Yes, it's more expensive but much cheaper than a new engine or major repairs.

The problem lies in the fact that alcohol and gasoline don't stay mixed with gas being a lighter specific gravity and separating and floating on the top of the Ethanol after sitting still resulting in "layering". The gasoline tankers do not get their fuel blended at the source, first they must fill with gasoline then go to the Ethanol plant and add the Ethanol. Sure, it get's mixed while filling and then rolling down the highway to your local gas station but then it sits motionless in the storage tanks and unless rapidly emptied, separates, with the Ethanol lying on the bottom, right where the pump intake is located. Same thing applies to any fuel tank on boats, cars, mowers, string trimmers, chain saws, etc. The fuel intake is necessarily located at the bottom of the fuel tank. So.... unsuspecting owner comes along, after whatever he is starting has sat motionless for awhile, starts the engine and you suck pure alcohol into your fuel system which it isn't designed to run on.

The other problem observed in small engines and especially two-strokes is incomplete combustion of the ethanol. Ethanol contributes to pollution and has it's own set of problems in producing it's own varieties of pollution as it burns but it really is notorious for leaving behind CARBON deposits which are hard to deal with when you want to keep your two-stroke engine running properly. Carbon is formed by failure to burn a fuel completely in a reciprocating engine. If you use fuels containing Ethanol, you are building up carbon deposits way faster than normal in your engine. It forms on exhaust valves and seats in four strokes and in the intake and exhaust ports on two-strokes and on some spark plugs. This gradual build up results in slowly diminishing performance which is difficult to notice until it reaches critical levels and then it's too late. The engine (heads) must be dis-assembled and de-carbonized and that costs big bucks. The Sea Foam fuel additive advertises that it eliminates this carbon build up from ocurring, if used regularly, and will even de-carbon an engine (somewhat) that has started to build up these hated deposits. That is why engine shops and outboard mechanics will recommend Sea Foam to their customers. Stabil is purely a fuel preservative but I noticed last Fall that they had started to advertise on their product labels a compatibility with fuels containing Ethanol

Don't you just love Missouri Government for forcing this junk down our throats ? Why, you would think there was a heavily funded lobbyist or two that wined and dined them into adopting this idiotic requirement maybe ? Last year (2008) there was a bill presented to increase the required Ethanol content to 15% but several of our wonderfully responsive "representatives" are cattlemen and had seen their feed bills triple due to increased prices of corn. So for once, they had shot themselves in their own foot and voted the 15% content down. As is often said, when the Missouri Legislature is in session, no one is safe !

[vacation]

Lots of different views on ethanol in gas...all I know is it isnt good. However....

ROCK LANE RESORT AND MARINA, on the east side of Indian point, near Jakes creek sold me gas on Saturday, 91 octane, ethanol free for $2.75 per gallon.

I thought that was very reasonable and a cheap peace of mind with no ethanol in the blend.

What are other fuel prices on the lake?

[FLYFISHINMAN]

Do the water separator filters help with this at all? I recently had one installed by the advice of my mechanic.

[skeeter]

Do the water separator filters help with this at all? I recently had one installed by the advice of my mechanic.

No sir, they do not. As their name implies, they only separate the water found in some gas from the gasoline before entering your intake system. Good idea to have one and change it regularly but no help with Ethanol.

[Cajunangler]

This was online in the Tampa Bay Online publication. Looks like more and more states are getting sucked into this crap by our "wonderful" elected officials that don't give a crap about the people who elected them. Maybe we need to start getting rid of the one's that continue to vote for this stuff.

By RUSSELL RAY

rray@tampatrib.com

Published: May 3, 2009

Linda Mulder and her husband, Ronald, were boating on the Homosassa River recently when their boat started to sputter.

"We were having a hard time accelerating," Linda Mulder said.

After consulting a mechanic and examining the engine, the Palm Harbor couple discovered that the inner lining of their fuel line was falling apart. The line was clogged and the fuel filter was filled with pieces of the corroded hose.

"It wasn't letting the engine get the fuel," she said.

The Mulders contend they were victims of gasoline blended with ethanol, a mix wreaking havoc for boat owners nationwide.

Ethanol-blended fuel is served at thousands of Florida gas stations and will be mandatory by the end of 2010 thanks to a new state law approved last year.

Kevin Campbell, owner of Outboard Motor Services in Tampa, said clogged fuel lines, crumbling gas tanks and malfunctions of all sorts have increased since the petroleum industry introduced E10, a blend of 10 percent ethanol and 90 percent gasoline, to Florida consumers a year and a half ago.

"Every day I have a new customer come in with the ethanol problem," Campbell said. "I've seen it so many times."

Ethanol is creating thousands of dollars in repairs for boat owners who were caught off guard by the potential damage ethanol can do to boat engines, Campbell said. And their warranty, in many cases, won't cover damage caused by what manufacturers classify as contaminated fuel.

"If you have an ethanol problem and it eats up all your fuel lines, some of these manufacturers are voiding your warranty," Campbell said.

The situation has led several boat owners in Florida to sue the major oil companies.

But E10 works just fine in most boat engines - as long as the engines are used regularly.

The separation factor

The problem is that most boats sit for long periods of time without use. When ethanol-blended fuels sit in a gas tank for a long time, the ethanol begins to separate from the gasoline.

When engines consume pure ethanol, a highly corrosive solvent, the results can be disastrous. In addition to unraveling fuel lines, it can loosen sludge, varnish and dirt inside the gas tank, causing fuel lines and carburetors to clog.

Ethanol eats away at the fuel line, causing it to fail like a collapsing tunnel, Campbell said. "I have a few customers that have brand-new engines and it's actually eaten up the fuel lines completely," he said.

Also, ethanol prefers water over gasoline. If water is in the boat's gas tank, the ethanol will separate from the gasoline and bond with the water.

That means boaters could end up pumping a mixture of ethanol and water into their engine. If that happens, the boat could stall.

Most experts say it takes 60 to 90 days for ethanol to start separating from gasoline. But that's not always the case.

"I've seen it in 30 days," Campbell said.

Most older boats are equipped with fiberglass gas tanks, which ethanol can harm. "It will break down the fiberglass material and turn it into a gel and just dissolve the tank," Campbell said.

Those with older boats should consider replacing their fiberglass tank with aluminum or plastic, he said. Replacement costs, however, can exceed $1,000.

At a minimal cost, boat owners can protect their engines by installing fuel lines that are more resistant to ethanol and by using gasoline additives that help prevent the separation of ethanol and water from gasoline.

Matt Hartwig, spokesman for the Renewable Fuels Association, said the boating industry's claims about ethanol have been greatly exaggerated.

"Ethanol has become a convenient scapegoat for any issue relating to marine engines of late," Hartwig said. "The fact is that most boats on the water can handle ethanol blends, especially when marinas and owners take the proper precautions."

Cars and trucks are better equipped to handle ethanol. What's more, cars and trucks are used more frequently, which means the ethanol is not given a chance to separate from the gasoline.

Boat owners, Campbell said, are blaming the federal government for increasing the use of ethanol in gasoline without warning the public of the potential effects.

Is a higher blend on the way?

As boat owners pay for costly repairs caused by ethanol, the ethanol industry and its agricultural allies are trying to increase the use of ethanol in gasoline from 10 percent to 15 percent. The nation's $40 billion boating industry is trying to block that effort.

"Any ethanol blend above 10 percent poses significant durability, performance and safety risks for boating consumers," said Mat Dunn, legislative director for the National Marine Manufacturers Association.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency is expected to decide before year's end whether to grant the ethanol industry's request for higher ethanol blends.

Any blend above 10 percent would make boats and chain saws run hotter and faster, Dunn said.

"You're talking about a huge number of products that could be impacted negatively by E15," he said. "Our major concern is that the federal government is going to make a hasty and ill-informed decision and bring all of those products out of compliance or cause performance problems."

The nation's boating industry accounts for 154,000 jobs, including 30,000 in Florida. Of the nation's 13 million registered boats, about 1 million are in the Sunshine State.

The ethanol industry, however, says ethanol is a cleaner-burning fuel that will reduce U.S. dependence on foreign oil and lower greenhouse gas emissions.

Under a new state law passed last year, all gasoline sold in Florida must contain 10 percent ethanol by the end of 2010.

Reporter Russell Ray can be reached at (813) 259-7870.